D&D (2024) Here's The New 2024 Player's Handbook Wizard Art

 

[Reynard]

There’s quite a lot of positivity for this newer style look but it does nothing for me. I guess I’m just not the target audience

I actually prefer the "fantasy concept art" look over the super clean MtG look, but who am I?

 

[Yaarel]

What life-extending magic does a 5E wizard have access to before Tier 4?

I mean, I agree that it makes sense, but it's not RAW.

The quest for immortality is an important trope that is presumably active within a fantasy setting. The reallife folkbeliefs to attain immortality exist since ancient times in many cultures by many means. Even today, there are longevity researchers seeking ways to cure aging. It is a resonant topic.


For D&D immortality means eternal youth. There is no aging thus no death from age related illnesses. Other causes of death can still happen, including injuries.

Immortality is flavor only, since "lifespan" is mainly irrelevant, far away and off camera for most player characters. It lacks mechanical development. But it can have setting implications.

Most of the age-halting or age-delaying features are high tier. Undying Warlock at level 10. Ancient Paladin at level 15. Druid at level 18. Various high tier spells, such as Clone, True Polymorph, and Wish. In D&D of earlier editions, Wish is the go-to for eternal youth. Heh, in 5e, make sure the DM is ok with immortal flavor before wording this wish. In my opinion Regenerate rejuvenates cells, according to the narrative adjudication of the spell description, thus a youthful refresh.

Hanging out in the Astral Sea enjoys immortality.

Plus simply reaching level 21 is Epic eternal youth for any class: Boon of Immortality.


I feel Reincarnate should be a slot 1 spell. It is less useful at high tier. But at the lowest tier, when a character gets killed without recourse, it is useful to come back as a new and different character who retains the memory of what happened earlier. Reincarnation is a kind of immortality.


The Forgotten Realms setting includes methods of immortality such as the Sun Orchid Elixir to refresh youth and taken regularly.


To be youthful and healthy is as simple as Alter Self. Transmuter Wizard at level 14 does it for free for self and others. But these dont extend lifespan.


In any case, means of eternal youth exist. It can be standard for high tier characters, such as Epic Tier in 4e and 5e, and even achievable at low tier in certain situations such as for ageless species.

 

[ezo]

I think why you’re getting pushback (at least from me) is the implications of what you’re saying (and I apologize in advance if I’ve completely misread the situation).

I accept the apology because what I was saying really didn't imply what you (and possibly others) were thinking.

No one is denying that if you show the average person on the street a picture of a Gandalf-look-alike, that they would immediately say ‘Wizard’. My disagreement was that you seemed to think this wasn’t a wizard, despite hitting the three hallmarks that I look for in identifying a wizard: Spells, staff, and (most importantly) a spellbook. She has all of those.

Actually, someone was, which was why I responded about it.

It sounds like that you are saying she doesn’t look like a wizard because she’s not an old man with a beard.

No, I am saying she doesn't look like a wizard (to me) because she looks like a superhero. The pose, the floating stuff, the glowing eyes.

She doesn't have a spellbook, they are flying all around her. She doesn't have a staff, it's floating in front of her. And there is "magic" around her, but is it something she cast, or something holding her, or something else?

Which is why upthread I said something like: put the staff IN HER HAND, put the spellbook IN THE OTHER HAND, put her feet ON THE GROUND, stop with the glowing eyes, get rid of the "radiant yellow light", and such things and THEN she'll look like a wizard to me.

Right now, divine soul sorcerer is the best non-superhero I can call her.

I don't care that she isn't an old man blah blah blah. I care that she doesn't really represent "wizard" in any way to me. And yes, the old bearded man stuff would more represent a wizard to me, but generally IME they are the NPCs (as @Minigiant pointed out), and I don't feel that image has to replace this one.

Gandalf is for sure a famous archetype. But I’m sure posters could flood this thread with equally famous and recognizable wizards from the last 30 years who weren’t old men with beards and pointy hats.

Well, Harry Potter and Dr. Strange (or Wanda? maybe), probably... but otherwise, no I really don't think many would match the bolded claim.

And at the end of the day, the question isn’t whether she could win an “I look like a wizard!” contest with Gandalf. It’s whether people could pick her out as the wizard next to the other D&D class illustrations. I obviously haven’t seen the sorcerer or warlock images, but I have no doubt they each will be distinct in their own right.

True, but will they look anything really different from this one? Again, sure we have flying spellbooks and a floating staff, but you know, Warlocks can use spellbooks (Pact of the Tome) and staffs, too.

WotC uses "traditional" art: Eww, change it!
WotC uses new style art: NOT LIKE THAT

Fortunately, not likely from the same person.

PCs are always the property of the players, and never cease to be.

If a player retires the PC, it becomes an NPC under the contrl of the DM.

At any time, players can decide to play a high tier campaign and pull out their high level characters from earlier campaigns to do it.

If the DM agrees.

Black woman used in wizard illustration and we get a 60+ page thread asking if that’s really what wizards look like.

Not a great look. For us.

If one really had anything to do with the other, I'd agree. But IIRC only one most made any reference even remotely in this direction... But after so many pages, I guess I could have missed others?

There’s quite a lot of positivity for this newer style look but it does nothing for me. I guess I’m just not the target audience

Preach, man, preach! I guess I haven't either, I mean look at my avatar! LOL

 

[Cadence]

Survey results from two classes at an R1 research university in the Southeastern US:

3 out of 6 graduate students in Psyc, Ed Measurement, or Statistics knew of Neil Gaiman (one had read something by him as an assignment in middle school, 2 or 3 were US citizens, the others were from SE Asia).

9 of 27 undergraduates mostly in CS or Stats knew of him (vast majority were US citizens).

Additional data:

0 of 4 6th-9th grade D&D players did.

 

[ezo]

Survey results from two classes at an R1 research university in the Southeastern US:

3 out of 6 graduate students in Psyc, Ed Measurement, or Statistics knew of Neil Gaiman (one had read something by him as an assignment in middle school, 2 or 3 were US citizens, the others were from SE Asia).

9 of 27 undergraduates mostly in CS or Stats knew of him (vast majority were US citizens).

Additional data:

0 of 4 6th-9th grade D&D players did.

Limited sample, of course, but better than I would imagine. Still, only 12 out of 37 in a sample of mostly well-educated and probably well-read people is hardly surprising.

Now find out how many of them know of Albus Dumbledore or Merlin.

Or go the Beyonce, or Tom Brady, or Keanu Reeves, etc. route?

 

[teitan]

Why is the wizard Hasteing themselves and not the fighters?

Why not both? You can cast more spells per round.

 

[Jaeger]

I really don't know why it keeps coming back to this when it has nothing to do with the original discussion. I was never talking about what people want to play.

Amazing what people will cling to, isn't it?

Plate armour, as described and illustrated in D&D, is 17th century (I.e. renaissance) sports equipment.

Is it?

From the 5e PHB p.145:
"Plate: Plate consists of shaped, interlocking metal plates to cover the entire body. A suit of plate includes gauntlets, heavy leather boots, a visored helmet, and thick layers of padding underneath the armor. Buckles and straps distribute the weight over the body."

The accompanying illustration also on p.145:

An Archetypical Milanese 15th century harness. (Well within the Medieval era.)

1450 Italian Harness. (Well within the Medieval era.)

An Early 15th century harness. (Well within the Medieval era.)

Doubling down on D&D's depiction of plate armour as "post-medieval" in spite of easily found direct historical evidence to the contrary displays a level of historical ignorance. And ignorance tends to accompany - other views.

Or all the clerics that work for the church? You going to tell them they need to quit? (The word cleric dates from the 17th century, priest is older).

But does it though?

Clerics and the King’s Service in Late Medieval England
Clerics and the King’s Service in Late Medieval England by Virginia Davis
"Men described as “clericus” span the full gambit from having received the first tonsure, which carried with it no commitment to an ecclesiastical career..."
“…the wide range of meanings encompassed within the medieval and catch–all term “clericus”.”

Saying that they word cleric dates from the 17th century displays a level of historical ignorance. And ignorance tends to accompany - other views.

And I would like to see your historical evidence for wizards casting fireball during the medieval period.

Because obviously when I used the words Pseudo, Fantasy, and Fantastic, in the terms "Pseudo Medieval Fantasy Aesthetic", "Fantastic Medieval Aesthetic", and "Medieval Fantasy Aesthetic" they are to be ignored entirely; As I am somehow only referring to 100% historical fidelity.

Do I really have to cite the definitions of: Pseudo, Fantastic, Fantasy, and Aesthetic here?
(The use of the word 'quasi' comes up later. Should I cite that one too?)

The real crux is this:

Is it out of line to use turns of phrase like: Fantastic Medieval Aesthetic, Medieval Fantasy Aesthetic, or even Pseudo-Medieval Fantasy Aesthetic, to describe how D&D was depicted for decades? (Do a search on these forums; Those terms and similar ones get used a lot in D&D discussions...)

I don't think so.

But let's see what Gary Gygax has to say on the matter:

TSR - Q&A with Gary Gygax

This is the multi-year Q&A sessions held by D&D co-creator Gary Gygax here at EN World, beginning in 2002 and running up until his sad pasing in 2008. Gary's username in the thread below is Col_Pladoh, and his first post in this long thread is Post #39.

www.enworld.org

"...I did not include Vance-inspired creatures in the A/D&D game because they didn't fit well with a quasi-medieval fantasy game, ..."

TSR - Q&A with Gary Gygax

This is the multi-year Q&A sessions held by D&D co-creator Gary Gygax here at EN World, beginning in 2002 and running up until his sad pasing in 2008. Gary's username in the thread below is Col_Pladoh, and his first post in this long thread is Post #39.

www.enworld.org

"Intense adventuring in the quasi-medieval fantasy milieu becomes staid without some variety. ..."

TSR - Q&A with Gary Gygax

This is the multi-year Q&A sessions held by D&D co-creator Gary Gygax here at EN World, beginning in 2002 and running up until his sad pasing in 2008. Gary's username in the thread below is Col_Pladoh, and his first post in this long thread is Post #39.

www.enworld.org

Gentlegamer said:
Is that because of genre considerations? That is, AD&D is pseudo-medieval fantasy where such abilities are inappropriate? Or were the rules themselves simply problematic from a mechanical point of view?

Col_Pladoh:
"Would you believe both? ..." My Note: Gygax does not correct Gentleman gamer when he says: "AD&D is pseudo-medieval fantasy..."

At this point if I don't get at least a few sentences telling all and sundry that Gary Gygax was completely full of it; I admit it, I'll be a little disappointed...


P.S. - Again; I readily concede the point that D&D has been purposefully drifting away from a 'Fantasy Medieval Aesthetic' for years. But, a full 'drift' hasn't occurred quite yet...

 

[teitan]

Depending on the setting, most Human mages might not reach level 20. But player Humans are the outliers of such statistics.

Even lower tier mages have access to magic for health and youthfulness. Even an Alter Self spell can be youthful and healthy. Magic items help too.


Regarding high tier play, D&D neglects the development of the high tiers. In earlier editions, the ad hoc rules fell apart at the higher tiers. This "tradition" has lingered. 4e tried to think thru what high tier play should look like. Generally I prefer more powerful upgrades of abilities, rather than hoarding lots of fiddly abilities.

Each tier is its own genre. The superhero genre occurs during the "Grandmaster Tier" (levels 13-16) and the "Legend Tier" (levels 17-20). These tiers are different magnitudes of superheros.

The rules for high level, name level, play were domain management and they were ample, the idea of a campaign wasn't yet adventure until your level 20, it was to adventure and acquire wealth to build a stronghold etc and then manage your domain and other player characters adventured within the domain while the big guys going occasionally for special situations. There were rules in the DMG and it was leading into 2e that the shift started and 3e essentially dropped it with 3.5. In 2e the rules were shifted to the DMGR series originally and the Player's Option and High Level campaign books in late 2e. In 3e it was in the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook. It wasn't just Birthright. Birthright moved the domain management to lower level characters. There were robust rules for army campaigns in Battlesystem for 1e and 2e, including miniatures.

 

[sinascendant]

Jesus christ i only came to this thread because Google suggested it and holy hell, so many people here trying to gatekeep DnD and nitpick a bunch of silly garbage

The whole point of modern DnD and the reason why it's so popular is literally the superhero fantasy. It's why there are floors for things like stat rolls, why a lot of the game systems include redundancies for negative stuff, etc.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a hardcore campaign where characters die every 5 sessions and you're dark and gritty and realistic, but that's not what makes the game popular and what made it grow explosively in the last decade. That's because of shows like Critical Roll or Dimension 20 or even Stranger Things where they follow a series of characters through events and deaths only happen when they're meaningful.

It's fine if you don't like that, but don't complain when the official content goes that way, because that's what keeps the game thriving now.

 

[sinascendant]

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