D&D General Are you aware that the New Edition (5.5 whatever) is a part of the 50th Anniversary of D&D?

[Burnside]

I don't like the DMG cover because I think the coloring is meh. I don't like how the blue washes out all the other colors.

I agree. The main reason I don't like it is because it's kind of a mess artistically. Same with the PHB.

These same three characters in a different style I'd be fine with.

 

[Remathilis]

That’s another one - Vecna was just never really a thing except for people saying “what if you got the eye and hand of Vecna?”

But at least Vecna makes sense now - thanks to Stranger Things and Critical Role, D&D has an outright boogeyman. They have their Emperor Palpatine now.

I kinda feel that's a good thing.

As a D&D player for more than 30 years, I find there is very little shared lore with other players. Occasionally you might hear stories about the classic modules or apocryphal tales of the Head of Vecna, but so much of D&D is localized to specific DMs running unique adventures on homebrew worlds that D&D as a franchise has little going beyond it's rules, and WotC has been giving it's rules away for a while now.

Eve of Ruin really puts into perspective what WotC sees D&D as a brand as. They want some recognizable characters and places to use in modules, media and merchandizing. They need something to sell since they can't rely solely on selling rules due to the CC. So they are hoping to glow up the older characters from D&D's past to sell on T-shirts and such.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I kinda feel that's a good thing.

As a D&D player for more than 30 years, I find there is very little shared lore with other players. Occasionally you might hear stories about the classic modules or apocryphal tales of the Head of Vecna, but so much of D&D is localized to specific DMs running unique adventures on homebrew worlds that D&D as a franchise has little going beyond it's rules, and WotC has been giving it's rules away for a while now.

Eve of Ruin really puts into perspective what WotC sees D&D as a brand as. They want some recognizable characters and places to use in modules, media and merchandizing. They need something to sell since they can't rely solely on selling rules due to the CC. So they are hoping to glow up the older characters from D&D's past to sell on T-shirts and such.

So what in all that are you saying is a good thing? The increased ability of WotC to merchandize?

 

[Meech17]

It was a marketing angle in 2014 when Hasbro execs wanted to shelve the whole thing and the design team had to promise they could get their old player base back from Pathfinder. Their 4e strategy and failed and they needed to draw in all the old players.

Today it's at least a little weird to do that. Gen X is not some deep market. We're not the people watching actual plays as far as I'm aware. We're a small generation compared to millenials. Our kids are mostly still in college (and many of the older ones are still living at home). We're middle age adults so we don't have a particularly large amount of disposable income that we're willing to spend on games. The 35 and younger crowd was 75% of the market last time I recall they published those numbers.

So why are they targeting 45 and up? The D&D cartoon doesn't even hold up! It's a bad 80s commercialized cartoon.

Younger Millenial/35 and underer here. 32 this fall, actually. I think it makes perfect sense. To my generation, if we don't know/care who these characters are... It doesn't matter. You take away the cartoon nostalgia and this is still D&D. I don't know who Venger, Skylla, and Warduke are but that's very clearly a powerful Lich, a badass witch, and a super spooky death knight on the new DMG.

I don't think any young person who found D&D through Critical Role, who then goes to an LGS or Target to get the books will look at this cover, and think "Oh wow. This art is really cool" but then find out that it's all old cartoon characters and have their mind changed. The growth of the OSR has shown us that there is most certainly a longing for "The Good Old Days" and I think this is a way to play to that crowd, without disenfranchising the people not in that crowd.

I'm glad others are noticing this here. If you talk to people outside Enworld about 4E these days, it was the best thing since sliced bread, really ahead of its time, or so the whispers say.

So two weekends ago I went to my LGS to draft the Baldur's Gate Magic the Gathering set in celebration of D&D's 50th anniversary and while I was browsing the store waiting to see if enough people showed up for the event to fire off I overhead two younger(Relative to me. I'm guessing they were in their early-mid 20's) guys there, waiting for Adventurer's League to start, and talking about the new edition, and they got onto a tangent about 4e. By the sound of things, they had never played the edition and were dogging on it pretty hard with the usual criticisms. (It's WoW the TTRPG, Everyone had video game powers, etc) The guy working the counter, who is also in their age group mentioned that he didn't know anyone who had, or does play 4e. I mentioned that it's seemingly going through a bit of a renaissance, at least in online spaces.

They were really surprised about this. It seems to be another one of those things that you're probably not aware of if you're not chronically online. I think the general consensus is still that it was the Wii-U, or New Coke of D&D editions.

I blame Matt Coville, as I do for most things Millenials are wrong about.

/this is sarcasm, in case it was too subtle

Hey now.. Watch what you say about my para-social older brother figure. I've spent a lot of time deifying him and I won't have you upset that pedestal.

 

[TiQuinn]

I kinda feel that's a good thing.

As a D&D player for more than 30 years, I find there is very little shared lore with other players. Occasionally you might hear stories about the classic modules or apocryphal tales of the Head of Vecna, but so much of D&D is localized to specific DMs running unique adventures on homebrew worlds that D&D as a franchise has little going beyond it's rules, and WotC has been giving it's rules away for a while now.

Eve of Ruin really puts into perspective what WotC sees D&D as a brand as. They want some recognizable characters and places to use in modules, media and merchandizing. They need something to sell since they can't rely solely on selling rules due to the CC. So they are hoping to glow up the older characters from D&D's past to sell on T-shirts and such.

I think their best NPC and not coincidentally, most beloved adventure, is Strahd (Curse of Strahd/Ravenloft). He checks all the boxes for them. Recognizable, popular across editions, etc.

 

[the Jester]

Maybe they should put something like this on the covers? All the D&D named heroes ever made on the PHB, all the named villians on the DMG?

View attachment 365252

Nah. D&D isn't about those guys. It's about your group's characters.

 

[Shardstone]

Younger Millenial/35 and underer here. 32 this fall, actually. I think it makes perfect sense. To my generation, if we don't know/care who these characters are... It doesn't matter. You take away the cartoon nostalgia and this is still D&D. I don't know who Venger, Skylla, and Warduke are but that's very clearly a powerful Lich, a badass witch, and a super spooky death knight on the new DMG.

I don't think any young person who found D&D through Critical Role, who then goes to an LGS or Target to get the books will look at this cover, and think "Oh wow. This art is really cool" but then find out that it's all old cartoon characters and have their mind changed. The growth of the OSR has shown us that there is most certainly a longing for "The Good Old Days" and I think this is a way to play to that crowd, without disenfranchising the people not in that crowd.

So two weekends ago I went to my LGS to draft the Baldur's Gate Magic the Gathering set in celebration of D&D's 50th anniversary and while I was browsing the store waiting to see if enough people showed up for the event to fire off I overhead two younger(Relative to me. I'm guessing they were in their early-mid 20's) guys there, waiting for Adventurer's League to start, and talking about the new edition, and they got onto a tangent about 4e. By the sound of things, they had never played the edition and were dogging on it pretty hard with the usual criticisms. (It's WoW the TTRPG, Everyone had video game powers, etc) The guy working the counter, who is also in their age group mentioned that he didn't know anyone who had, or does play 4e. I mentioned that it's seemingly going through a bit of a renaissance, at least in online spaces.

They were really surprised about this. It seems to be another one of those things that you're probably not aware of if you're not chronically online. I think the general consensus is still that it was the Wii-U, or New Coke of D&D editions.


Hey now.. Watch what you say about my para-social older brother figure. I've spent a lot of time deifying him and I won't have you upset that pedestal.

Def the Wii-U of D&D.

 

[TiQuinn]

So what in all that are you saying is a good thing? The increased ability of WotC to merchandize?

If I were running the company and had to actually grow their revenue, trying to build their characters and adventures into something recognizable and merchandizing that is a pretty good way of doing it.

 

[Remathilis]

So what in all that are you saying is a good thing? The increased ability of WotC to merchandize?

Yes.

You have said it yourself that you don't ever need to touch a WotC made book to play D&D again. You know that, and WotC knows that. So selling D&D as some genetic toolbox of rules is competing in the one area they have the most competition against people who are as talented as they are.

But the one thing they have that no one else does is their IP. Vecna, Greyhawk, etc. So it make absolute sense that they would lean into it. Thanks to various open gaming licensing systems, any Joe can make an orc and pie module, but only one can make the Pie of Vecna. So let WotC go wild with its IP. Generic heroes fighting a dragon can be on the cover of any RPG book; D&D needs Strongheart and co. fighting Tiamat if they want to survive.

 

[Oofta]

So what in all that are you saying is a good thing? The increased ability of WotC to merchandize?

If we continue to have a healthy and vibrant D&D community of players I can game with? For me anything that has a positive impact on the number of gamers is a good thing. I guess I don't see WotC making a profit as a bad thing. I'm not forced to spend money on anything, if it has value to others who am I to say no?