D&D (2024) Are single class martials still going to be viable in 2024?

[Flamestrike]

And it may make your character nonsensical. like if some one was an Oath of the Watchers Paladin then it makes zero sense for them to have a warlock pact to a fiend or GOO.

That would be nothing more than an egregious breach of the Oath.

Loyalty. Never accept gifts or favors from fiends or those who truck with them. Stay true to your order, your comrades, and your duty.

 

[mellored]

No it doesnt, and you're using some 20th level 'build'

I'm using a level 12 build.
Who cares more about keeping allies alive instead of killing.

Your build doesn't even take inspiring leader.


Also, use Divine Favor instead of hunter's mark, it will free up future bonus actions for lay on hands or smite, and won't drop when you get hit.

 

[mellored]

I can count on one finger the number of times I've needed a multiclass dip to make a character in 5e.

Was it Kung Fu Panda?

 

[Micah Sweet]

That would be nothing more than an egregious breach of the Oath.

Loyalty. Never accept gifts or favors from fiends or those who truck with them. Stay true to your order, your comrades, and your duty.

But the oath (like all oaths in 5e) has no mechanical back up. Players have no incentive not to break them whenever they want.

Just like clerics and warlocks, unfortunately.

 

[Distracted DM]

No one multiclasses because they need to for RP reasons, you do it because your character will objectively be more powerful that way.

I've had players that thought "I want some levels in barbarian, it makes sense because my character is angry about this bad guy doing this thing." I pointed out that anyone could be angry, and also that barbarians were about more than the Rage feature :'D Ultimately the player passed on it.
Not sure if I have a point here- the player definitely in their mind equated "angry" with "barbarian" but they started with the idea that they wanted the multiclass. A few players might start with a RP reason but the vast majority think "I want that feature."

 

[Chaltab]

Was it Kung Fu Panda?

It was a Monk-Fighter, though alas she was a dwarf and not a Pandarian.

 

[Chaltab]

But the oath (like all oaths in 5e) has no mechanical back up. Players have no incentive not to break them whenever they want.

Just like clerics and warlocks, unfortunately.

I mean other than losing your subclass and becoming an Oathbreaker.

Though honestly if a player needs a mechanical incentive to not literally do exactly the opposite of their oath then that player really shouldn't be playing a Paladin to begin with.

 

[ECMO3]

No one multiclasses because they need to for RP reasons, you do it because your character will objectively be more powerful that way.

I always multiclass for RP reasons. Single classes are a very narrowly defined set of abilities, especially if you want your character to use weapons well and have lots of spells.

Not to say multiclassing can't make some characters objectively more powerful, it can and I beleive this is even more true in 2024, but that is not the reason I multiclass.

If all you care about is power it is pretty difficult to beat a single class wizard. Yes maybe a Cleric dip can give you a little bit because of the heavy armor you get with it, but not much and it is arguable whether that is actually better at a lot of levels.

 

[Flamestrike]

I'm using a level 12 build.

A level 12 build that is significantly weaker than its mono-classed Paladin buddy for most of the preceding 11 levels.

At 12th its on par with its mono-classed buddy. Maybe an extra +1 saves for being SAD (and a short rest spammable 1st level slot), vs the Paladin with an extra ASI.

The above single classed PC has a Str of 20 by then, and a Charisma of 18, as opposed to a Charisma of 20 and Inspiring leader on the multiclass build.

Next level I get 4th level slots and spells, while the Dual class gets an ASI (and his Charisma is already maxed out). I know which has more value out of the two options.

The mono-class gets its Subclass abilities, its faithful steed (a large summoned bag of HP and an extra attack every day), extra attack, higher level spells and spell slots, improved divine smite, divine grace etc all an entire level before a multi-class with a single dip.

With levels from 4-12 taking 10-15 or so encounters each to advance (so several sessions), that leaves the multi-class PC looking on in envy at his single classed PC for multiple sessions per level, for the previous 11 levels.

It's like the old Sorlock builds. Popular online, but in actual play pretty god awful.

The classic example being 'Lock 2/ Sorcerer 3 (yay, I have a better cantrip!) vs Sorcerer 5 (I have encounter ending spells like Fireball etc).

 

[FrogReaver]

Addendum: I'm almost certainly going to find bugs now that I posted this publicly. Expect edits.

Edits:
1 - Fix target AC on dips
2 - Fix proficiency bonus on dips

GWM Prof Bonus Damage is applying to the reaction and bonus action attack when it should only apply to attack from the attack action.

Also, if you are making this as granular as you are then you really should include an OA% as well as a % for GWM bonus attack. Also should probably add an advantage % for allies granting you advantage (will skew damage less towards characters that can self grant advantage).

This isn't a bug, but GWM Fighter should be taking something that adds damage at level 6 since this is a damage comparison. Sentinel or Charger should really be in place of Mage Slayer.

Maybe I missed it but I didn't see on the TWF Fighter where you gave a % of attacks with advantage due to vex.

Note: I did check level 5 PAM calculations and they are accurate.