D&D (2024) Dungeon Master's Guide Bastion System Lets You Build A Stronghold

The Dungeon Master's Guide's brand new Bastion System has been previewed in a new video from Wizards of the Coast.

Characters can acquire a bastion at 5th-level. Each week, the bastion takes a turn, with actions including crafting, recruiting, research, trade, and more.

A bastion also contains a number of special facilties, starting with two at 5th-level up to 6 at 17th-level. These facilities include things like armories, workshops, laboratories, stables, menageries, and more. In total there are nearly thirty such facilities to choose from.

 

[James Gasik]

I'd like to introduce a base building system in my current game, the players are starting to ask about things like purchasing a house and so on. My last experience with anything like this was the Pathfinder 1e rules from Kingmaker, and boy, was that a PITA. So maybe something simple is in order. If anyone has suggestions for good rules, however, I'd like to hear them.

 

[Sulicius]

I'd like to introduce a base building system in my current game, the players are starting to ask about things like purchasing a house and so on. My last experience with anything like this was the Pathfinder 1e rules from Kingmaker, and boy, was that a PITA. So maybe something simple is in order. If anyone has suggestions for good rules, however, I'd like to hear them.

Well, the Bastion rules are pretty simple when it comes down to it. I can recommend the play test rules!

I haven’t heard any other option being used successfully.

I personally cannot recommend Strongholds & Followers.

 

[M_Natas]

Have you ever used a base building ruleset? I am using the Bastion play test rules with great success, and I wonder why you feel like these are such issues.

In the spelljammer game I'm running now as a DM, the Ship is basically the base and I just give the players options to upgrade their ship - if they have the money or ressources ...

Maybe I feel like that those are issues because I prefer a more simulationist approach to my D&D games and dislike elements that are to much disconnected from the game world.
Like, why to use Bastion turns if you have completely useful time increments like weeks. Why use level caps, that make no sense in the game world, because level is already an abstraction and is not something that is part of the game world, but an abstraction to help players understand the power level of their characters. But why does my fighting power matter at all if I want to open a pub? There is no logical connection in the game world, why I should wait to level 5 to be able to open a pub or Inn.

There is a logical connection to the amount of money I have and the ability to buy, build or open an establishment. It is already there, it is already a balancing factor.

 

[Hussar]

Just like the new npc interaction system, it's supposed to relegate things that were once handled by the DM into an area of strictly defined rules of what can or cannot be allowed and under which circumstances, which will be easier for algorithm to handle. DM is not allowed anylonger to actually creatively decide how a creature will react to a big charisma roll, but is now forced to use strict chart that reduces DM roleplay to mindless automatons. DM is no longer allowed to interact with a bastion outside of strict mechanical bonuses it gives the players. Hell, throw in a new Warlock that completely eliminates the patron as an active NPC you have to roleplay and turns it into powerless set of bonuses not allwoed to directly interact with the PC. Because anything more is too much for an algorithm to handle and could also overshadow the new fancy AI toy they want people to go subscribe to D&D Beyond for. And it will all make easier to then argue DMs are obsolete and should be replaced by AI, all to make more people subscribe to D&D Beyond and turn the game into a naughty word MMO.

Ok, if you think that the DMG "allows" the DM to do things, then we're really not going to be able to have a serious conversation. Ten years and I've never seen a patron as an active NPC, nor seen a single player who wanted such.

But, again, none of this relates to how an AI would do anything. VTT's do not adjudicate anything. That's not what a VTT does.

 

[Sulicius]

In the spelljammer game I'm running now as a DM, the Ship is basically the base and I just give the players options to upgrade their ship - if they have the money or ressources ...

Maybe I feel like that those are issues because I prefer a more simulationist approach to my D&D games and dislike elements that are to much disconnected from the game world.
Like, why to use Bastion turns if you have completely useful time increments like weeks. Why use level caps, that make no sense in the game world, because level is already an abstraction and is not something that is part of the game world, but an abstraction to help players understand the power level of their characters. But why does my fighting power matter at all if I want to open a pub? There is no logical connection in the game world, why I should wait to level 5 to be able to open a pub or Inn.

There is a logical connection to the amount of money I have and the ability to buy, build or open an establishment. It is already there, it is already a balancing factor.

Yeah I am fine with letting a lot of details fade into the background. I'm not interested in using gold, because D&D economies never made sense to me anyway.

Why the issue with Bastion turns? They are a week by default, you can just change them to your liking.

The level gating? Yeah I already changed that myself. It's still a useful limit so the PC's don't get too powerful facilities too fast. I think if my players want to run a pub, I'd just let them, reskinning one of the base facilities.

In any case, having a solid framework makes it wayyyy easier for me to make the bastion part of a pirate ship.

 

[Micah Sweet]

At least they seem to have gotten rid of bastion points, but damn it is still a stupid system.
Hard Level Caps, Bastion turns, Meta-Limits on how much or what you can make that ate not supported by Ingame-Reality ...

A good system doesn't need all that.

Just give us a list of "rooms", with building costs, building time, effects (income per week, research, crafting), and possible Upgrades (like you can start with a shabby pub for just 10 Gold! It is just a Shed with a shabby table, 4 not matching chairs and a wobbly counter, that spells the cheapest ale and wine, but if you spend a 100 Gold you can upgrade it to a Modest pub ...).
Then give us a template, guidlines and some example for hirelings.

Then you base it all on Weeks instead of stupid meta Bastion turns.

You don't use hard level caps, you use time and money and ingame ressources (certain NPCs, magical items, special materials ...) as a balancing tool.
Yeah, the upgrade to the magical Inn costs 10 000 Gold, so better start looting! But it doesn't matter, if you are level 3, 5 or 10 - If you habe the money, the enchanter will enchant your magical Inn for you and the Mage-Smith will work in your Smith.

If you have the money and ressoures, you can have as many special rooms as you want.

This is basically what I want out of a stronghold system.

 

[Micah Sweet]

In the spelljammer game I'm running now as a DM, the Ship is basically the base and I just give the players options to upgrade their ship - if they have the money or ressources ...

Maybe I feel like that those are issues because I prefer a more simulationist approach to my D&D games and dislike elements that are to much disconnected from the game world.
Like, why to use Bastion turns if you have completely useful time increments like weeks. Why use level caps, that make no sense in the game world, because level is already an abstraction and is not something that is part of the game world, but an abstraction to help players understand the power level of their characters. But why does my fighting power matter at all if I want to open a pub? There is no logical connection in the game world, why I should wait to level 5 to be able to open a pub or Inn.

There is a logical connection to the amount of money I have and the ability to buy, build or open an establishment. It is already there, it is already a balancing factor.

At the end of the day, these kinds of setting logic questions are why the rules base WotC is using for the Bastion system could never work for me. My simulationist preferences really demand something more connected to the setting. That doesn't mean that it won't have anything of use to me, however, so I look forward to seeing the actual rules when my friend buys the DMG and brings it over, and I enjoy talking and speculating about it now.

Just like the rest of 5.5. I'm still a 5e player, just not WotC anymore.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Ok, if you think that the DMG "allows" the DM to do things, then we're really not going to be able to have a serious conversation. Ten years and I've never seen a patron as an active NPC, nor seen a single player who wanted such.

And I'm running d&d for four years and have been watching a lot of fandom and for majority of players the patron as an active NPC is THE reason to play a Warlock. If you already play it as just bunch of worthless powerups with nothing to interact with the world, I can see why you're not seeing a problem with WotC designing all roleplay out of the game.

But, again, none of this relates to how an AI would do anything. VTT's do not adjudicate anything. That's not what a VTT does.

Change of rules to limit and reduce roleplay and DM decision, in favor of spreadsheets, sounds like deliberate change to favor rules and gameplay style that AI can easily analyze and utilize in a VTT where it replaces the GM.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah I am fine with letting a lot of details fade into the background. I'm not interested in using gold, because D&D economies never made sense to me anyway.

Why the issue with Bastion turns? They are a week by default, you can just change them to your liking.

The level gating? Yeah I already changed that myself. It's still a useful limit so the PC's don't get too powerful facilities too fast. I think if my players want to run a pub, I'd just let them, reskinning one of the base facilities.

In any case, having a solid framework makes it wayyyy easier for me to make the bastion part of a pirate ship.

See, I'd rather take a system with which I'm already pretty comfortable (like Level Up's stronghold system) and modify it to better suit my needs (which may include bits from the bastion system) than the other way round.

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

What the Bastion system reminds me of is the video game State of Decay 2. There are certain bases you can take over on the map for your community - some are small, some medium or large. Inside each base, let's say Rusty Rosey's, a rundown gas station/biker kitchen, there are small slots and large slots. One of the large slots is an auto shop - from the wrecker repair. Inside the bar, there's a kitchen, there are also small slots - the booths, which work as a bed - or you can tear the booths out to put real sleeping areas in, or an infirmary, or your workshop.