D&D (2024) PHB 2024 Is Hilariously Broken. Most OP of All Time?

[Zardnaar]

I was very clear that I'm talking about when I'm DMing. My ruling is that you are dragging them behind you and that you are basically combining squares if it ever matters. You can't grapple and drag someone while also holding them out at arms length.

Feel free to rule differently, the rules don't go to this level of detail so that different groups can run it differently if they want.

More being called an edge case.

If someone really wanted to muck around with forced movement if the DM was being particularly pedantic why not just build a Sorlock instead? Repelling blast quicker Eldritch blast? 4-6 beams in most games use them to knock opponents wherever.

Edge case being moving in a perfectly straight line. You can force people to move IRL without dragging them. The D&D rules just abstract that.

If they go prone sure drag them more likely just kick them. On the ground is about the last place you want to be btw.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I did spot a lit of combos in 2014 early on and a lot got nerfed in 2024.

More hilarious than broken 2024 mechanics is the fact that you wrote "I did spot..." instead of "There were..."

 

[Oofta]

More being called an edge case.

If someone really wanted to muck around with forced movement if the DM was being particularly pedantic why not just build a Sorlock instead? Repelling blast quicker Eldritch blast? 4-6 beams in most games use them to knock opponents wherever.

Edge case being moving in a perfectly straight line. You can force people to move IRL without dragging them. The D&D rules just abstract that.

If they go prone sure drag them more likely just kick them. On the ground is about the last place you want to be btw.

The discussion was grappling and dragging so I answered how I run it.

 

[Mistwell]

Counter arguement there's no rule saying you cant either.

So the plain meaning of drag is drag behind you. You can run it different at your table, but then you also called running it different broken. So why would you do that?

You xan carry singing they're not in your space. Hey I didn't write it.

If you didn't write that, who did? xan can sing all they want. Regardless, if you lift something, it's not on the ground. So if you lift someone and there are spikes, they're not on the spikes.

Also, "You can’t willingly end a move in a space occupied by another creature."
Being grappled isn't willing. "If you somehow end a turn in a space with another creature, you have the Prone condition unless you are Tiny or are of a larger size than the other creature." So, you can indeed unwillingly occupy a space with another creature.

 

[Zardnaar]

So the plain meaning of drag is drag behind you. You can run it different at your table, but then you also called running it different broken. So why would you do that?



If you didn't write that, who did? xan can sing all they want. Regardless, if you lift something, it's not on the ground. So if you lift someone and there are spikes, they're not on the spikes.

Also, "You can’t willingly end a move in a space occupied by another creature."
Being grappled isn't willing. "If you somehow end a turn in a space with another creature, you have the Prone condition unless you are Tiny or are of a larger size than the other creature." So, you can indeed unwillingly occupy a space with another creature.

There's no facing used in 5E who's to say if it's a push or drag. Even if there was the person being moved doesn't relocate to the opposite side of the direction the person forcing them is moving. It's abstract maybe they're being kicked idk.

Spike growth you take the damage if you move through it. There's no requirement to be touching the ground.

Spell specifically mentions thorns as well do it's not just caltrop type effect.

So X is a tile. O is opponent, Y is you and D is where you're moving to.
X
D
X
X
X
X
O
Y

Typical race 30' speed, straight line you have made your grapple roll. O would hit every X and end up in the X past D right?

 

[FrogReaver]

There's no facing used in 5E who's to say if it's a push or drag. Even if there was the person being moved doesn't relocate to the opposite side of the direction the person forcing them is moving. It's abstract maybe they're being kicked idk.

Pushing and dragging don't rely on facing but on position and movement direction. Different concepts.

Spike growth you take the damage if you move through it. There's no requirement to be touching the ground.

For what it's worth, I agree here.

Spell specifically mentions thorns as well do it's not just caltrop type effect.

So X is a tile. O is opponent, Y is you and D is where you're moving to.
X
D
X
X
X
X
O
Y

Typical race 30' speed, straight line you have made your grapple roll. O would hit every X and end up in the X past D right?

1. You can't move through the opponents space can you?
2. Grappling only lets you carry or drag an opponent. Not push them.

 

[Zardnaar]

Pushing and dragging don't rely on facing but on position and movement direction. Different concepts.

For what it's worth, I agree here.

1. You can't move through the opponents space can you?
2. Grappling only lets you carry or drag an opponent. Not push them.

The description doesn't mention weight.is size restricted.

Stand off to the side then.



CD
XX
XX
XX
XX
XX
OY

You're the Y moving towards D. Dragging them if it makes you feel better.

0 ends up in C da/nyet?

 

[Mistwell]

There's no facing used in 5E who's to say if it's a push or drag.

Because it must be a drag by the rules. You move one square south, and your grappled target must be one square north of you, also having moved one square south. That's how a drag is represented on a grid.

Even if there was the person being moved doesn't relocate to the opposite side of the direction the person forcing them is moving. It's abstract maybe they're being kicked idk.

Why would you bend the rules to make for a situation that you earlier called hilariously broken?

Spike growth you take the damage if you move through it. There's no requirement to be touching the ground.

Yes, there is. You don't move through it unless you're on the spikes. Just like difficult terrain, which it is. And the spikes and thorns are so small that they're labelled as camouflaged and you need to make a check to even spot them.

Spell specifically mentions thorns as well do it's not just caltrop type effect.

So X is a tile. O is opponent, Y is you and D is where you're moving to.
X
D
X
X
X
X
O
Y

Typical race 30' speed, straight line you have made your grapple roll. O would hit every X and end up in the X past D right?

That's a push, not a drag. And it's difficult terrain so half speed. Grappling is specifically DRAGGING or CARRYING. If it's the later, only you are taking damage. You would need to swap places with O to begin with, and then run across the spikes, dragging them behind you. You'd be taking the damage as well.

 

[Zardnaar]

Because it must be a drag by the rules. You move one square south, and your grappled target must be one square north of you, also having moved one square south. That's how a drag is represented on a grid.

Why would you bend the rules to make for a situation that you earlier called hilariously broken?


Yes, there is. You don't move through it unless you're on the spikes. Just like difficult terrain, which it is. And the spikes and thorns are so small that they're labelled as camouflaged and you need to make a check to even spot them.


That's a push, not a drag. And it's difficult terrain so half speed. Grappling is specifically DRAGGING or CARRYING. If it's the later, only you are taking damage. You would need to swap places with O to begin with, and then run across the spikes, dragging them behind you. You'd be taking the damage as well.

Got a page number for that? You have won the grapple roll who's to say you're not using an arm bar to make them go sideways? Or using their own momentum against them?

I would offer to show you in real life hurts like a SoB. Might be a carry the feat is sized not weight based so it's kinda irrelevant in any case. It's abstract.

 

[FrogReaver]

Got a page number for that? You have won the grapple roll who's to say you're not using an arm bar to make them go sideways? Or using their own momentum against them?

You may be, but that's not typically viewed as 'dragging' them.