D&D (2024) Treantmonk's Ranger DPS video:

[Zardnaar]

I dont know what Treantmonk’s math says. My math says Graze is very good. It does get worse if you hit more often, but it takes hitting very consistently before Vex or Topple overtake Graze for single-target DPR.

Using treatmonks criteria Graze would add about 1 to 1.66 extra damage per round approx average. Approximately. Real world to many variables translation its situational.

Vs whatever TWF does.

 

[Charlaquin]

Using treatmonks criteria Graze would add about 1 to 1.66 extra damage per round approx average. Approximately. Real world to many variables translation its situational.

Assuming 65% accuracy and a +3 Strength mod, increasing at ASI levels, it should add about 1.05 damage per attack from levels 1-3, 1.4 per attack from levels 4-7, and 1.75 per attack from level 8 up. Again, it’ll get worse if you hit more than 65% of your attacks, but it’s a decent baseline estimate.

Vs whatever TWF does.

Graze is a weapon mastery, “TWF is a fighting style. In the interest of not comparing apples to oranges, we should either be pitting Graze by itself against Nick and Vex, or two weapon fighting as a whole against great weapon fighting as a whole.

 

[Zardnaar]

Assuming 65% accuracy and a +3 Strength mod, increasing at ASI levels, it should add about 1.05 damage per attack from levels 1-3, 1.4 per attack from levels 4-7, and 1.75 per attack from level 8 up. Again, it’ll get worse if you hit more than 65% of your attacks, but it’s a decent baseline estimate.

Graze is a weapon mastery, “TWF is a fighting style. In the interest of not comparing apples to oranges, we should either be pitting Graze by itself against Nick and Vex, or two weapon fighting as a whole against great weapon fighting as a whole.

More exact build of twf. And level.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Yes, this is still early to say that ranger completely sucks, but there is indication that ranger will not fare well in combat.
And that has no effect on roleplay as you can roleplay with an empty sheet of paper instead of character sheet.

But it sure help to know what your character can do good and what will be a struggle if downright not possible.

Yes, it is helpful to know what your character is good at, which is why it is important to take narrow data narrowly.

There is not an indication that the ranger will not fare well in combat. There is an indication that the Ranger will perform below the level of other martials, after level 10, specifically in single target DPR. And combat is far more than single target DPR, and the game is more than levels 11 thru 20.

Will they perform badly at single target DPR post-level 10? No. They are just below the people who specialize in single target DPR, and we've always known that ranger spellcasting and abilities often focused on spreading their damage, not focusing it.

 

[mellored]

I really dislike how optimization has to first create a very narrow set of parameters to do calculations

If you got a better system, go ahead and post it.

It's not like Treantmonk has a copywrite on math. You are also allowed to add and multiply dice.

And if you don't like how someone does something, then do it better.

 

[Sulicius]

If you got a better system, go ahead and post it.

It's not like Treantmonk has a copywrite on math. You are also allowed to add and multiply dice.

And if you don't like how someone does something, then do it better.

Once again… I am just saying I would prefer people cared about other things than this in their games.

But I have a better system: come join me this friday for an online Sunless Citadel game using the 2024 rules. I am not kidding.

Come see what actually matters in a game, like cooperation, being on time, having your character sheet ready, etc.

Why do people care more about white room math than being a good player?

 

[Zardnaar]

Once again… I am just saying I would prefer people cared about other things than this in their games.

But I have a better system: come join me this friday for an online Sunless Citadel game using the 2024 rules. I am not kidding.

Come see what actually matters in a game, like cooperation, being on time, having your character sheet ready, etc.

Why do people care more about white room math than being a good player?

What time and on discord?

 

[Mistwell]

He hasn’t analyzed any full casters yet, but I don’t expect most will be spectacular in terms of single-target DPR. Moreover, just keeping hex up and casting eldritch blast every turn has never been very effective. It did acceptable damage, but nothing to write home about, which is why Treantmonk used it as a baseline - if your single target DPR is less than that, you’re below par.

He has analyzed some Warlocks now (in patreon - pending youtube) and they indeed to not come out great for single target. Not awful though. Playable. But not great.

 

[Zardnaar]

He has analyzed some Warlocks now (in patreon - pending youtube) and they indeed to not come out great for single target. Not awful though. Playable. But not great.

Better than most spellcasters but they're a striker/control hybrid. Repelling blast into hunger of hadar for example. Plus better saves, social than say wizard.

 

[Horwath]

Once again… I am just saying I would prefer people cared about other things than this in their games.

why do you think that people who care about the game working right(math) do not care about other aspects of the game?

But I have a better system: come join me this friday for an online Sunless Citadel game using the 2024 rules. I am not kidding.

this is one of the best replies on the topic
but I have my weekly game of Twilight Imperium4, heh.

Come see what actually matters in a game, like cooperation, being on time, having your character sheet ready, etc.

this goes without saying.
anyone not doing that is more or less rude towards other in the game, especially the DM

Why do people care more about white room math than being a good player?

Again, why does caring about the math of the game and balance prevents you being a "good" player. Whatever a "good" player means to you?