D&D (2024) Treantmonk's Ranger DPS video:

[Zardnaar]

Yeah. The context is he had roughly tested all the martials and up until this point their DPR fell within a fairly narrow range. He thought this was a good sign, and theorized they'd all fall roughly within the range. And then his theory was blown when he got to the Ranger. Which, given his prior theory, was an uh oh there is a problem.


I think it was specifically Berserker Barbarian with a two handed weapon.

Yeah that's the hardest hitting one. Not the best though imho of course.

Vs no subclass. Gloomstalker got nerfed sorta.

 

[Minigiant]

I really wonder what the DPR is with Concentrationless Zephyr Strike and Searing Smite.

Nick frees up Bonus action so that's advantage and one damage die once per turn for zephyr

 

[Sword of Spirit]

My house rule for ranger (2014) is that they know hunter's mark for free and it doesn't require their concentration. Non-rangers can still learn the spell and use it with concentration.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Why would I need to read your reply to someone else to understand your reply to me? You replied to me, so I replied back, and then you acted like I needed to know that it was single target damage when I'd never said otherwise, so said yes agreed he said that.

I still don't understand your gotcha commentary.

You don't have to read all my posts. But it is not a dialogue. It is a whole thread with posts that happened before. I assumed you read 2 pages.
You probably didn't. Otherwise you would have noticed that I did not try to do whatever you assumed.

I just noted for everyone else who might not have seen the newer patreon video that treantmonk, as in the first video, also only looks at single target damage. And the ranger is also not looking great in that regard in the second video.

 

[ECMO3]

How are you planning on making truestrike work with more than 1 attack?

It doesn't generally.

I use it mostly with a heavy crossbow and currently use it extensively at 5th level in melee if I am not using nick since I don't have extra attack. I have a magic Mace +1 and at level 5 (4/1) using Truestrike with the Mace is better than using hand axe and Nick-dagger in melee. It won't be at level 6+.

I can switch it out every level, so I might not keep it past level 5.

It doesn't work with nick either. If you have a 13 or higher strength it works pretty well with Cleave though (but this character does not have a 13).

 

[Sulicius]

I tend to skip to the conclusions his build videos as I am not interested in however he gets to the final stats. I really dislike how optimization has to first create a very narrow set of parameters to do calculations, and then makes definitive statements that people will take as gospel.

These dozens of videos will just make people believe that this is the right way to play D&D more and more, which reminds me of the video "Why It Is Rude To Suck At Warcraft" by Folding Ideas. At some point only engaging with a game in a certain way signals to people that it is the right way to play.

I am currently testing 2024 D&D in the short Sunless Citadel adventure. One of the players is very active on Treantmonk's discord and he just... Doesn't role play? The only way he engages with the game is through combat and optimized behavior. It's fine, since the adventure will only last a couple more sessions, but it is fascinating to me.

In short: Ranger looks fine. Don't worry too much about numbers.

 

[Horwath]

I tend to skip to the conclusions his build videos as I am not interested in however he gets to the final stats. I really dislike how optimization has to first create a very narrow set of parameters to do calculations, and then makes definitive statements that people will take as gospel.

These dozens of videos will just make people believe that this is the right way to play D&D more and more, which reminds me of the video "Why It Is Rude To Suck At Warcraft" by Folding Ideas. At some point only engaging with a game in a certain way signals to people that it is the right way to play.

I am currently testing 2024 D&D in the short Sunless Citadel adventure. One of the players is very active on Treantmonk's discord and he just... Doesn't role play? The only way he engages with the game is through combat and optimized behavior. It's fine, since the adventure will only last a couple more sessions, but it is fascinating to me.

In short: Ranger looks fine. Don't worry too much about numbers.

that is what you describe a player problem, not a game problem.

That player will not roleplay whatever he plays at what ever RPG game he is in. Or maybe he will, do not know.

D&D is a roleplay game with heavy wargame elements, and in part of combat, those numbers have to work.

Yes, this is still early to say that ranger completely sucks, but there is indication that ranger will not fare well in combat.
And that has no effect on roleplay as you can roleplay with an empty sheet of paper instead of character sheet.

But it sure help to know what your character can do good and what will be a struggle if downright not possible.

 

[Horwath]

My house rule for ranger (2014) is that they know hunter's mark for free and it doesn't require their concentration. Non-rangers can still learn the spell and use it with concentration.

I will have to make DPR calculation with no conc on HM in the style of the video to see if it really breaks the game or not.
But, I'm sure it will not be anything near CME numbers.

 

[Zardnaar]

I will have to make DPR calculation with no conc on HM in the style of the video to see if it really breaks the game or not.
But, I'm sure it will not be anything near CME numbers.

It's not. CME is a bit of theorycrafting though. ATM.

Rangers fine at levels people hate about. It's levrl 11 Fighters and Monks jump in power they look meh.

 

[Sulicius]

that is what you describe a player problem, not a game problem.

That player will not roleplay whatever he plays at what ever RPG game he is in. Or maybe he will, do not know.

D&D is a roleplay game with heavy wargame elements, and in part of combat, those numbers have to work.

I am not talking about role play, I am talking about doing calculations being the optimal way to make decisions. It gives credence to looking for the highest number being THE way to play. This video is an example of making players feel like single target damage is very important.

Yes, this is still early to say that ranger completely sucks, but there is indication that ranger will not fare well in combat.
And that has no effect on roleplay as you can roleplay with an empty sheet of paper instead of character sheet.

But it sure help to know what your character can do good and what will be a struggle if downright not possible.

The ranger clearly doesn't completely suck. I know you have a personal interest in the ranger, but if the only way you can see that a class deals more damage through careful calculations in a very limited situation, we will be fine at the table.

The more people do these calculations, the more players will feel like "rangers will not fare well in combat". And that's before picking up a single dice! Before exploring a dungeon or hitting on a barmaid.

What optimization does is that it looks at the most optimal case in a specific scenario, and then call everything else "worse". Even when that specific scenario never happens at the table!