D&D (2024) DMG 5.5 - the return of bespoke magical items?

[Micah Sweet]

Ironically, I find that it is in fact possible to pursue "verisimilitude" so aggressively, you actually break through the other side and it becomes un-grounded again because, to quote Robert Herrick, "Do more bewitch me, than when art/Is too precise in every part." Everything placed perfectly, just so. Everything neat and tidy. Dwarves only have dwarf things, and you'll 100% always find dwarf things anywhere dwarves once lived, even centuries of looting later. Clerics only have cleric things, and you'll 100% always find cleric things where clerics once presided, even centuries of looting later. Etc.

Real life is messy, and real death is messier still. Many times, civilizations have risen and fallen in the same places, using and re-using the same materials (if not necessarily the buildings that made them.) The Athenian Parthenon stood for over two millennia before being destroyed for stupid, stupid reasons, used for a variety of purposes over the centuries: temple, church, mosque, gunpowder depot (which is what finally killed it). Bronze from ancient times is rare in large part because people would melt it down to cast something new out of it. (There's actually a HUGE treasure-trove of ancient lead recovered from a sunken shipping vessel that is of enormous scientific importance, because smelted lead sitting on the sea floor loses its radioactivity, and is thus incredibly valuable for ultra-sensitive radiation shielding.)

Sometimes, there won't be any axes or warhammers left in the ancient dwarf-forge because it fell to invasion and all the actually "good" (read: dwarf-favored) weapons were in warriors' hands, out on the battlefield, and got carted off as spoils of war centuries ago. Sometimes, a temple was abandoned by its priests because they moved to another site, and would not have been so careless as to leave nice things like holy symbols and fancy armor just lying around. Nearly always, societies have multiple different subcultures, who have different values and priorities, and it's a pure crapshoot what parts survive unlooted and undamaged for adventurers to pick up in the present day.

Agreed. It absolutely could go other, less obvious ways. But I still think tendencies matter, and weight what's likely accordingly.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The problem is not "yeah well MY dad character could beat up YOUR character!"

It is that two options are presented as being peers while actually being, to use the old phrase, "casters & caddies".

Just because the difference is not as extreme in some editions as it has been in others does not mean the difference is not there. The players are peers. The game presents the different class choices as being peers. They should be peers.

Peers are not 100% identical to one another. We aren't bees in a hive, we aren't clones, we have our different strengths and weaknesses. But when we form a peer group, we don't have one CEO and one VP alongside one janitor and one IT tech. "But the janitor performs critical maintenance and support, and the IT tech can fix ethernet issues that would prevent the CEO or VP from managing the company!" Doesn't even slightly mean that the first two are peers of the second two.

It's endlessly frustrating that people say (effectively) "well there is something useful they can do!" as though that were in any way a useful reply to "one set of options is actually in control, the other is just useful flunkies."

The fact that the meat shield can be fully replaced by an NPC with zero loss of functionality is pretty damning.

I don't know. I think a lot of this concern is psychological and based on what individual players want out of the game.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think this is why I don't worry overmuch about CR. I never worried about "expected" magic item levels and I always created adventures suitable to there general level and ability. My group was high skill so any CR WOTC would use would be too weak with magic items or not but I gave out a fair number of magic items.

And I do feel for brand new DMs who struggle with challenges. I'm just old enough and experienced enough to eyeball it for my groups. I tend to not go overly hard early on with a totally new group but that is really rare.

I don't worry about it either, but a lot of folks seem to, and new DMs should be aware of this as a potential issue IMO. Which is why I asked if it is in the book.

 

[Micah Sweet]

And most folks play paths rather than sandboxes. Which was my point.


Not the only way, sure. But by far the most common? Yes.

I'm sorry I missed your point then. I don't see the relevance in discussing the popularity of adventure paths.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Wouldn't it be tricky setting logic-wise for a character with no ability to use magic to make a magic item? I could certainly see it as a bespoke class feature, or a setting feature, but barring that...

i don't know, would it be tricky? i mean there's plently of stories of how master blacksmiths and other craftsmen can create supernatural items from ordinary materials and they don't seem to be spellcasters a good portion of the time, plus in DnD you've also got the justification that the materials you're using to create these items tend to be inherently magical.

plus there#s the old justification of arcana being enough of your 'magical know-how' even if you don't actually know any specific spells per se you know enough about spellcraft to 'work the magic'

 

[Micah Sweet]

I wouldn't say that. A path where you go from 1st to 20th? Absolutely not. I've never ran that sort of campaign. I realize the concept is popularized because of Paizo but I still wouldn't say a continuous unbroken path is normal by any means.

And even if it is "normal", what difference does that make? There are and should be plenty of ways to play.

 

[Micah Sweet]

i don't know, would it be tricky? i mean there's plently of stories of how master blacksmiths and other craftsmen can create supernatural items from ordinary materials and they don't seem to be spellcasters a good portion of the time, plus in DnD you've also got the justification that the materials you're using to create these items tend to be inherently magical.

plus there#s the old justification of arcana being enough of your 'magical know-how' even if you don't actually know any specific spells per se you know enough about spellcraft to 'work the magic'

Fair. It could work just fine if the setting allows for it. The rules of 5.5 as they stand, however, don't seem to.

 

[CreamCloud0]

What kind of game world do you play in where NPCs are so uncommon that you'd not even consider an option like working with the GM through an NPC?

If you did consider that but find that NPCs tend to be so universally hostile to PCs from kill some rats in the basement till saving the world from the BBEG it raises the question of why the players have their PCs so regularly acting in ways that spreads such a hostile world & why they can't maybe reform a bit or hitch their metaphorical wagon to NPCs who have goals in line with PC behavior then keep it hitched like that?

huh, if i'm relying on an NPC to craft my magic items for me maybe they should set up a hub where people can request certain items, maybe i could outsource the process completely where they could pre-prepare them and have some of the commonly requested items on hand, where the items can just be straight exchanged for gold, a distributor of enchanted objects, some sort of magic item...shop, perhaps?

 

[James Gasik]

Wouldn't it be tricky setting logic-wise for a character with no ability to use magic to make a magic item? I could certainly see it as a bespoke class feature, or a setting feature, but barring that...

Dwarves could make magic items in AD&D.

 

[James Gasik]

In fact, expanding on that point, plenty of materials in D&D worlds are inherently magical, so the idea of a craftsman making magic armor out of, say, dragon hide, with skill instead of finger wiggling seems reasonable.