D&D 5E The 2024 Ranger is Actually Pretty Good (with numbers)

[Chaosmancer]

Yes, I think there are a few Ranger builds that could work well. Honestly the build that Treantmonk did for the Beast Master Ranger, longbow and a Beast of the Sky would actaully work pretty well in a game. You are just more likely to be able to make a ranged attack every single round while melee builds could miss an entire round of attacks getting to their target.

I was also thinking of doing a Fey Wanderer Strength Ranger with a greatsword and Great Weapon Master. All of Treant Monks top builds use a greatsword. The only problem is maxing Str while getting Wis as high as possible but also keeping Dex and Con at 14. It is a bit MAD, but I think it would work okay.

Yeah, I actually saw someone make a strength based ranger before using the Hunter Subclass, and it was surprisingly (to me) effective. We are used to thinking of Ranger's as a Dex class, but they can absolutely go strength as their primary and do just fine.

 

[Minigiant]

Wait?
Isnt new Dreadful Strikes just spotless nonaction Divine Smites?

So a 20 WIs Gloomstalker has +4 DPR If they 40% of Dreadful Strikes are crits.
That's not bad.

Assuming 16 rounds per day.
Slasher Flury with 20 Dex18 Wis Gloomstalker is 8d8
Since it is controllable

2 Slasher Flurry is crit
2 Slasher Flurry is Sudden Strike

9(12d8+((2d6+10)*.60))/16)= 4 DPR

 

[Xeviat]

The ranger's damage isn't an issue. The issue with the 2024 Ranger is it feels like their concentration is constantly locked up in Hunter's Mark. If that was changed somehow (such as making Hunter's Mark not concentration, make it's damage once per round, have damage and duration scale with spell level, and remove target switching), then the 2024 Ranger would be great.

 

[Minigiant]

The ranger's damage isn't an issue. The issue with the 2024 Ranger is it feels like their concentration is constantly locked up in Hunter's Mark. If that was changed somehow (such as making Hunter's Mark not concentration, make it's damage once per round, have damage and duration scale with spell level, and remove target switching), then the 2024 Ranger would be great.

That's just apparence.

Hunter's Mark is an option.
The problem is Hunter's Mark alone is bad.
But Hunter's Mark without concentration is OP in the hands of any class with concentration buffs..

Hex + Hunter's Mark is OP.
Divine Favor + Hunter's Mark is OP.
CME (fixed) + Hunter's Mark is OP.

WOTC had to keep HM as a spell to be backwards compatible. But fans saw HM as a core ranger elements. So WOTC had to buff Hunter's Mark as a class features.

The ranger has many modes depending on which concentration spell.

Entangle Mode
Hunter's Mark Mode
Summon Beast Mode (Skittles)
Summon Fey Mode
Summon Elemental Mode
Conjure Animals mode
Conjure WB Mode
Swift Quiver Mode

The issue the ranger has is that most adventures don't have enough encounters to use up all of those stuff slots. And Ranger does not have a spell other than heal of thorns and lightning arrow to dump access spell slots into.

So if you only have four encounters a day you might never get to the point where you run out of Hunter Mark and go into the other modes. Or start in one of the other modes and an end in Hunter's Mark Mode.

If you have five fights In an adventure day you can do Hunter's Mark twice, Spike Growth twice, and Conjure animals once, and have tons of resources left over.

 

[kigmatzomat]

This is true. Having too many resources left when your allies are tapped out is not good as it turns those extra resources essentially into ribbons.

It's like being the one elf in the party who is always volun-told to take 2nd and 3rd watch. Those extra 4 hours a day are just unavailable on adventuring days.

(Although that does get to my "elves should be super alien to humans" rant as aside from living 7x as many days, their "daily hours experienced" is 25% greater. Meaning their "waking lives" are more like 9x longer than "generic" humanoids with their century-ish lifespan and around double that of dwarves)

 

[Minigiant]

This is true. Having too many resources left when your allies are tapped out is not good as it turns those extra resources essentially into ribbons.

It's like being the one elf in the party who is always volun-told to take 2nd and 3rd watch. Those extra 4 hours a day are just unavailable on adventuring days.

(Although that does get to my "elves should be super alien to humans" rant as aside from living 7x as many days, their "daily hours experienced" is 25% greater. Meaning their "waking lives" are more like 9x longer than "generic" humanoids with their century-ish lifespan and around double that of dwarves)

Which is why the highest damage Ranger does this

Melee nonBM ranger

1. Precast Summon Fey up casted to highest slot
   1. If fight happens. Sweet
2. When 5th level slots run out, Cast Guardian of Nature or precast Summon Fey (4) over and over
3. When 4th level slots run out, Cast Hunter's Mark or Summon Beast (3) over and over

Ranged nonBM ranger

1. Precast Summon Fey up casted to highest slot
   1. If fight happens. Sweet
2. When 5th level slots run out, Precast Summon Fey (4) over and over
3. When 4th level slots run out, Cast Hunter's Mark over and over
4. Spam Hail of Thorns on hits
5. Spam Lightning arrow on misses

 

[Horwath]

Wait?
Isnt new Dreadful Strikes just spotless nonaction Divine Smites?

So a 20 WIs Gloomstalker has +4 DPR If they 40% of Dreadful Strikes are crits.
That's not bad.

Assuming 16 rounds per day.
Slasher Flury with 20 Dex18 Wis Gloomstalker is 8d8
Since it is controllable

2 Slasher Flurry is crit
2 Slasher Flurry is Sudden Strike

9(12d8+((2d6+10)*.60))/16)= 4 DPR

Oh, don't get me started on the dumbest 2024 trend for the whole game,

having abilities on X ability modifier per Long rest.

Didn't we got rid of that when we removed bonus spell slots for high ability score that was in 3.5e?

it just promotes ultimate min-maxing and removes any option of diversity in builds.

feature uses should be used a fixed number of times, irrelevant of abilities.
that is why we have DCs/attacks to measure power of those features.

 

[Minigiant]

Oh, don't get me started on the dumbest 2024 trend for the whole game,

having abilities on X ability modifier per Long rest.

Didn't we got rid of that when we removed bonus spell slots for high ability score that was in 3.5e?

it just promotes ultimate min-maxing and removes any option of diversity in builds.

feature uses should be used a fixed number of times, irrelevant of abilities.
that is why we have DCs/attacks to measure power of those features.

Meh I'm fine with features based on secondary abilities.

Just that the formulas chosen were bad.

Like 3+Wisdom mod per long rest.

Or have Tireless, Nature's Veil, and subclass spells and features share a pool of Wisdom score uses per Long Rest. So a ranger with Wis 14 has 14 primal points and a ranger with Wis 9 has 9 primal points. Nature's Veil costs 4 primal points.

But I am fine with all Gloomstalkers being forced to pump Wis. Just make it 1+Wis.

Gloomstalker is still good. Just not dip for brokenness OP.

 

[Horwath]

Meh I'm fine with features based on secondary abilities.

Just that the formulas chosen were bad.

Like 3+Wisdom mod per long rest.

Or have Tireless, Nature's Veil, and subclass spells and features share a pool of Wisdom score uses per Long Rest. So a ranger with Wis 14 has 14 primal points and a ranger with Wis 9 has 9 primal points. Nature's Veil costs 4 primal points.

But I am fine with all Gloomstalkers being forced to pump Wis. Just make it 1+Wis.

Gloomstalker is still good. Just not dip for brokenness OP.

I hate it as it can't be counted on.

prof bonus per X or fixed amount based on class level per X is much more reliable, as this can swing from 1 to 5 uses and then you are in balance problems.

It't more that enough that abilities are determining AC/DC/attack/saves/checks, they should not limit fun(number of usages of abilities).

and it's completely inconsistent.

Tasha's did it much better.

it's either:

1 per X
prof bonus per X
2×prof bonus per X
1(2)×level per X

it's an amount you can count on no matter how good or bad you make your character.

 

[Horwath]

But I am fine with all Gloomstalkers being forced to pump Wis. Just make it 1+Wis.

nah, now with that BS we will see tons of Shillelagh+druid range cantrip, S&B rangers with 8 STR, 14 DEX, 16 CON, 17+ WIS and pumping WIS only, as that is only that has math sense. especially for Gloomstalker, beastmaster and Fey wanderer.
Hunter can get away with pumping DEX only and mediocre WIS(16)

Gloomstalker is still good. Just not dip for brokenness OP.

it went from solid A tier to maybe C+.
and it was never broken by it self.
It was broken is some theorycraft; assassin+gloom+fighter2+pala smite for alpha strike combo.

now instead if limiting smite to Once on your turn(not Bonus action BS) and limiting Assassins auto crit to attack that carries sneak attack only, they trashed 3 (sub)classes.
talk about overkill.