D&D 5E What is the Deal with the Twilight Cleric?

[Horwath]

Nope I ran the order cleric. Rogue in party and slavery barbs.

That is OK combo, nothing special

I swabbed SB for bless.

you get more out if in the end

 

[TheSword]

Darkvision doesn’t defeat stealth or invisibility if you want the Vampire to hide in the shadows of a room you of course can. In most situations, Darkvision is pretty pointless when some players have it and others don’t because the others have to carry light and the Darkvision becomes redundant.

Furthermore jump scares are really difficult pull off in a TTRPG where players are usually suspicious, skeptical and sitting in a comfortable chair and the pacing of a game session makes it hard to shock people like that.

 

[Zardnaar]

That is OK combo, nothing special

you get more out if in the end

It was also the spell list and toral package.

Gt mentioned the other day by a couple of players in that campaign lol.

Very powerful. Not twilight cleric level though.

 

[Shiroiken]

Currently dealing with a Twilight Cleric in my Eve of Ruin campaign. Twilight Sanctuary basically makes mobs of monsters irrelevant, because they just can't overcome the amount of temporary HP granted every single round. Additionally, the temp HP don't go away after the effect ends, so even after the fight the party can sit around until they have the maximum temp HP for the next fight. It makes any attempt at draining resources pointless, especially since they can recover the ability after a short rest.

The darkvision ability is also somewhat annoying, not because it can be shared, but because it's so much longer than any other creature's darkvision. The cleric can see any enemy before they party can be seen, making the party a group of ambushers. Given the power of surprise in 2014, this is really powerful.

 

[Distracted DM]

Others have addressed the mechanical issues already. I would like to focus on this issue, which is more of a genre / gameplay issue in my mind. I acknowledge that you are not the DM in this situation. However, I would like to share my opinion that I think darkvision on all the PCs will lessen your enjoyment of Curse of Strahd ... and therefore, having easy access to long distance darkvision will exacerbate that gameplay issue.

I think having even one character that can see in the dark is not conducive to the horror genre. The fact that even one PC can see the vampire lurking in the corner of the basement and can alert the rest of the party to its presence takes away that vampire's ability to jump scare the party. Being able to see in the dark means your characters won't be afraid of the dark ... and being afraid of the dark is an important aspect of the horror genre.

I would argue that Leomund's tiny hut will also have a negative impact on your Curse of Strahd experience (and since a twilight cleric gets it for free that again exacerbate the gameplay issue). Sometimes the party might find itself needing to sleep out in the wilds of Barovia, which ought to be a scary and stressful thing. But Leomund's tiny hut will make it so you can sleep blissfully anywhere in Barovia. No need to seek out shelter in the few towns with walls and guards!

Next time I run Curse of Strahd, I am going to make it so darkvision is hampered in Barovia. Its range may be limited to 5 or 10 feet. Spells like Leomund's tiny hut may be banned. I can't scare my players at the table, but I will do what I can to make Barovia scary for their characters.

[insert "if you need darkness to scare your players then youre not a good gm" comment here] /s
I have a helpful suggestion though: make darkvision back into low-light vision or infravision. My super-simple Low-light vision hack is "character does not suffer dim light penalties." Bam, done.
Infravision is almost more interesting however, although it's a bit more GM-taxing, because you get to describe the shape/heat signature of the thing without actually saying what it is... and it won't work on most undead because they lack body heat. Depends ofc on the environment etc.

 

[DEFCON 1]

The issue I have with darkvision in a horror game is that there's no way to defeat it (short of using magical darkness). A torch or lantern can be snuffed out in a variety of ways. The light cantrip and other such spells can be dispelled. You can drop your torch, magically lit rock, etc. Light also has the effect of making you visible to the monsters hiding in the dark.

This is a good point, but is also probably the reason other players might argue the point-- how many DMs actually spend their monster actions snuffing out torches/lanterns or dispelling light cantrips? Some probably do, others probably don't... which is why the "party darkvision" question always seems to be so divisive. The PCs being stuck in completely darkness (even in a horror game) might only be used as a trope by certain DMs (for whom the trope gets screwed up by too much available darkvision) but if other DMs don't use the darkness trope that often... having PCs with all with darkvision and/or light sources don't really matter. So the need to snuff light out or worry about darkvision was never really on the table to begin with.

But this subclass is definitely one where a DM should exercise their rights to include or not include it if their particular style of DMing would make it too powerful. Or as @mellored suggested, reducing the power of some of the abilities to make it more manageable. So hopefully @CleverNickName can pass this thread onto their DM so that they can see what they might be up against and how much it may or may not interfere with their particular playstyle for a Strahd game.

 

[Distracted DM]

This is a good point, but is also probably the reason other players might argue the point-- how many DMs actually spend their monster actions snuffing out torches/lanterns or dispelling light cantrips? Some probably do, others probably don't... which is why the "party darkvision" question always seems to be so divisive. The PCs being stuck in completely darkness (even in a horror game) might only be used as a trope by certain DMs (for whom the trope gets screwed up by too much available darkvision) but if other DMs don't use the darkness trope that often... having PCs with all with darkvision and/or light sources don't really matter. So the need to snuff light out or worry about darkvision was never really on the table to begin with.

But this subclass is definitely one where a DM should exercise their rights to include or not include it if their particular style of DMing would make it too powerful. Or as @mellored suggested, reducing the power of some of the abilities to make it more manageable. So hopefully @CleverNickName can pass this thread onto their DM so that they can see what they might be up against and how much it may or may not interfere with their particular playstyle for a Strahd game.

This sort of ties into Light and other utility cantrips being unlimited use. Having a torch takes a hand, so either the warrior doesn't have a shield or isn't using a two-hander, or the caster holds it and is much easier to disarm/etc than the warrior- and yeah, it can be blown out. The Light cantrip ... much harder to challenge that without using overblown resources to kill a cantrip (dispel magic etc).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Currently dealing with a Twilight Cleric in my Eve of Ruin campaign. Twilight Sanctuary basically makes mobs of monsters irrelevant, because they just can't overcome the amount of temporary HP granted every single round. Additionally, the temp HP don't go away after the effect ends, so even after the fight the party can sit around until they have the maximum temp HP for the next fight.

This at least is debatable.

Is it broken if it was the rule. Yes. Should temp hp should explicitely state that they only last till next rest if they are granted by instantaneous effects? Yes.

Are not a slave to the rules. No. Just make the rules your own and tell your players that you don't think the intend was that the temp hp go on forever. Being relenished every round is already plenty as you state later. I don't think any player will deny that.
The other option would be to just ban it at your table. So the player has a choice.

Edit: just before someone invokes dumb oberoni fallacy. No it is not. I don't say there is no problem.
I explicitely say there is one* which should be fixed by the developers.

I just say that instead of whining and crying about your fate, you can chose to just make a houserule until it gets fixed by the developers eventually if the subclass is revisited for 2025.
Or even better if errata clarify the temp hp rules which would also fix the polymorph problems.

*edit 2: which either is temp hp rule not clear enough or actually in need to being changed.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

This sort of ties into Light and other utility cantrips being unlimited use. Having a torch takes a hand, so either the warrior doesn't have a shield or isn't using a two-hander, or the caster holds it and is much easier to disarm/etc than the warrior- and yeah, it can be blown out. The Light cantrip ... much harder to challenge that without using overblown resources to kill a cantrip (dispel magic etc).

Actually I question the premise that cantrips can be spammed every 6 seconds for a whole day.

Nothing in the rules limits fighters from dashing the whole day (except in chases where they will die after a few seconds of running).
Nothing in the rules limits a fighter from doing pull ups the whole day or weight lifting or eating or drinking water.

Anyone would challenge players who tell their DM they will do such martial/ mundane things all day. So why should cantrips be that easy to do and not taxing your body and mind at all.

 

[Stormonu]

One thing people typically miss is how disruptive twilight sanctuary is to implement. It triggers a thing that happens on everyone’s turn but isn’t any type of action. So every turn the cleric has to remind each character to take their temporary hit points. It added a whole extra thing to do onto every turn.

I’ve banned it at my table.

I'm testing with some tweaks - Darkvision 120 ft., and while the aura lasts a minute, a given character only gets the THP and removal of fear/charm once during the duration, not every turn. Still getting the cover for a minute seems fairly helpful and probably more than it should do considering the other effects it grants.

As for the fly/improved invisibility, that's not something I think is really an issue; at that level there's plenty chance for magic items/potions/scrolls/mounts or whatnot that would allow the same thing.

As for the Tiny Hut, I use a version that's not a fortress and can't be used as a ritual - but that's a problem with that spell in of itself and not the fault of the Domain.