Let's Talk About Metacurrency

[Lanefan]

(NOTE: the following little rant is not really focused at Micah; Im just using the quote as a jumping off point)

The funny thing about "realism" in D&D is that it never seems to come in the form of PCs behaving like human beings. Characters Penny pinch at the inn despite having just come in from weeks in the wild under constant threat. Characters don't find solace in one another's arms despite it being a terrible idea,like folks under real constant stress often do. They don't break under pressure or betray their principles for a little respite from the terrors of adventuring.

You've played different games than I, then, particularly around the 'solace in each other's arms' piece. Character romances (and everything good and bad associated with such) have always been a thing in our games. Penny-pinching and-or lavish spending in town is highly variable, usually dependent on which character is doing it. Betraying principles, perhaps not, but temporary retirement from the field while others go out and adventure is very common.

But, sure, let's add twisted ankles to the crit chart.

More like let's add some significant recovery time requirements in there beyond just a single night's sleep.

The solution, by the way, to the old problem where the Mage is fine after a few days while it takes the Fighter a few weeks to rest up is to tie rest-based hit point recovery to the character's total hit points, as a percentage. In my game, for example, an overnight rest gets you back 10% of your total hit points no matter what that total may be. That way, everyone rests up at pretty much the same rate regardless of how many hit points they have.

(edited for typos)

 

[Lanefan]

In support of that viewpoint: I was just reading the quickstart for Nimble, which is 5e derived/adjacent, and in their model once you reach zero HP you start taking wounds. At six wounds you are dead. HP can be healed quickly, but wounds can take much longer.

So, a prototype of a Wounds-Vitality hit point system then, where everyone has 6 Wound points.

'Bout bloody time.

In that model it seems that HP represent some kind of luck or skill or hero points or whatever, and you don't actually take physical damage until they are exhausted.

How does poison work, then? If you're hit by a poisoned arrow while still having lots of HP left can the poison even affect you?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Really? To me it is pretty self-evident that given the magic system of 5e the world is not a low-magic setting. The only way to maybe get that is for the characters to be some 'chosen' type PCs, otherwise magic is so ubiquitous that low level magic is commonplace just about everywhere.

What percentage of the population knows Cantrips / 1st-level spells / 2nd level spells ? Don't really have to go much farther for things to be exhaustingly high magic already. Instead of cobblers, you have travelling mages casting Mending, diseases are frequently treated in temples and shrines, and blindness, lost limbs etc. can be restored in every bigger town (for a fee), etc. Lord of the Rings this is not

You just invented the assumption that most of the population knows cantrips! Where are you getting that from? And this is a game where you get to make your own world anyway. Why make the kind of assumptions you're making? I don't, even in 5e.

 

[Micah Sweet]

my argument is that both are about as real (nor not) as each other, not whether them being real is important or not

I don't agree with your argument. Being a thing in the setting makes it more real as far as I'm concerned.

 

[mamba]

You just invented the assumption that most of the population knows cantrips!

no, far from most, just not 0.1% or less. If your characters are regular people that set out to do stuff, then that seems a pretty fair assumption. Magic Initiate already gets you most of the way there

 

[mamba]

I don't agree with your argument. Being a thing in the setting makes it more real as far as I'm concerned.

If neither character intentionally uses that thing, I do not see a difference. In either case this is the player deciding something that the character is completely oblivious to

 

[Deadstop]

no, far from most, just not 0.1% or less. If your characters are regular people that set out to do stuff, then that seems a pretty fair assumption. Magic Initiate already gets you most of the way there

5e NPCs aren’t built with PC rules and don’t take feats, though.

Eberron assumes yes, regular people learn appropriate cantrips and low-level spells along with mundane training for their professions. Greyhawk probably doesn’t.

OTOH, Eberron even in 3e held that PC classes are extraordinary. Anyone can learn a handful of spells, but a true wizard, who can learn any and every spell they can read a copy of and possibly invent their own, is more like a leading research scientist of the arcane. A cleric works visible miracles, while most priests just have social skills, Religion, and maybe a ritual-cast bless. Even fighters and rogues are not everyday warriors and scoundrels, but noticeably gifted practitioners of their fields.

So, especially in an edition that doesn’t present NPCs as using PC rules or the mechanics as the physical laws of the setting, it is really up to the setting designer, GM, and/or group how common PC-style abilities are in the general population.

 

[Micah Sweet]

no, far from most, just not 0.1% or less. If your characters are regular people that set out to do stuff, then that seems a pretty fair assumption. Magic Initiate already gets you most of the way there

There are tons of feats, and I don't play 5.5, so everyone doesn't start with one. And even if I did, how many people pick that feat, and how do they learn it in-setting? Assumptions upon assumptions.

 

[Micah Sweet]

If neither character intentionally uses that thing, I do not see a difference. In either case this is the player deciding something that the character is completely oblivious to

I get it, but to me it just doesn't matter in this specific case.

 

[Micah Sweet]

5e NPCs aren’t built with PC rules and don’t take feats, though.

Eberron assumes yes, regular people learn appropriate cantrips and low-level spells along with mundane training for their professions. Greyhawk probably doesn’t.

OTOH, Eberron even in 3e held that PC classes are extraordinary. Anyone can learn a handful of spells, but a true wizard, who can learn any and every spell they can read a copy of and possibly invent their own, is more like a leading research scientist of the arcane. A cleric works visible miracles, while most priests just have social skills, Religion, and maybe a ritual-cast bless. Even fighters and rogues are not everyday warriors and scoundrels, but noticeably gifted practitioners of their fields.

So, especially in an edition that doesn’t present NPCs as using PC rules or the mechanics as the physical laws of the setting, it is really up to the setting designer, GM, and/or group how common PC-style abilities are in the general population.

I subscribe to TSR worldbuilding conventions in large part, where NPCs can have classes, or not, depending on what they do and who they are. They don't all have the same abilities, but no ability is exclusive to OCs or NPCs, because the only real difference is who controls the character in our world.