D&D 5E 20th level Sorcerer vs the world

[Hohige]

The Sorcerer has Seeming Spell, Actor feat, Magical Guidance.
It's +17 +1d4 (Guidance), roll 4d20 (advantage + Magical Guidance) x Enemy's passive insight.
When he creates his Disguise (Previously), Glibness Spell (Wished) allows him to check +32. It automatically wins any passive check.
It's incredible hard to beat up.
His Seeming Spell is DC 18 that specificies that the enemy needs expend his action to roll a investigation check. Passive Investigation is useless. Each creature with seeming spell, the enemy needs to expend his action to an investigation check.

Each Hypnoc Magen has +2 Int +1d4 (Guidance) to disguise Itself. It means, they bypass the enemy's passive investigation with 16~18 on d20 vs 22 passive investigation.
Galven Magen has +17~19 on d20. vs 22 passive investigation
With advantage (Help action) is pretty easy to create a reliable disguise for them, The magens has magical and mundane disguise.

 

[Eltab]

Hohige, you are undercutting your own claim to have an excellent build by being unable to exp!ain how you conduct the contest. You just assert "Sorcerer already won".

 

[Hohige]

Hohige, you are undercutting your own claim to have an excellent build by being unable to exp!ain how you conduct the contest. You just assert "Sorcerer already won".

Very simple.
Our Lore Bard cannot fly. He will need to try to kill the Sorcerer while he is resting.
Well, it doesn't look like a good one.
And no, He cannot defeat the Sorcerer or scape there. It's impossible.
So, Yes, The Sorcerer already won that battle.

 

[Oofta]

Why are we always talking about a single fight against another lone individual or handful? Send an army of cannon sorcerer fodder with longbow unit or ten. Make the sorcerer into a pincushion if they're flying around. Find a friendly dragon, or a not so friendly fiend. Or just continuously send in assassins. Eventually one will work. Heck, just send in a level 10 bard/assassin with the right charm/illusion spells and poison his food.

Game over.

 

[James Harrison2]

I think there are plenty of ways of doing it - but in a vacuum, and one vs one via combat, it is super hard. But as a protracted campaign, with a cunning wizard and long enough I can see a way to.

But as straight-up up raw power this build seems pretty beefy!

However, I think this makes sense. Hohige's sorcerer has had infinite setup time - so taking a long setup time to take him down seems good.

Still, we have it easy - we know the target & his weaknesses. He has made a build that efforts deals with almost everything in a one on one fight. Real inventive!

 

[Hohige]

I think there are plenty of ways of doing it - but in a vacuum, and one vs one via combat, it is super hard. But as a protracted campaign, with a cunning wizard and long enough I can see a way to.

But as straight-up up raw power this build seems pretty beefy!

However, I think this makes sense. Hohige's sorcerer has had infinite setup time - so taking a long setup time to take him down seems good.

Still, we have it easy - we know the target & his weaknesses. He has made a build that efforts deals with almost everything in a one on one fight. Real inventive!

Before everything. Thanks for your points.
I tried to create a simple character, without relying on magic items, infinite loops, without multiclass to be as simple as possible to build.
The real power of the class is good spell choices, metamagic and good feats, choices. Combined with field strategy.
Some people say that a Sorcerer is not versatile. Well, it's because they don't know how to use this class correctly.

But, The Demigod is not only strong in RAW Power and Vaccum. In fact, he is very powerful in Disguise and deception and has access to subtle spells, impersonating any creature and subtly defeating the enemy. It's Master of Deception and Disguise combined with Subtle Spell is insanely good on socials. Magical Guidance and Guidance cantrip increase his skill checks to another level.

About preparation time.
He casts Wish to create his Fortness since level 17 and a few years of downtime to get everything ready.
Well, Wizards / Bards spend years in a school of magic. Why can't a Sorcerer use that time to build his fortress?

 

[Hohige]

A powerful trick revealed:

The Drow Matron Mother Simulacrum and Pegasus (Wished Find Greater Steeds). Now the Simulacrum can flight 120ft speed.
Both buffed with Inspire Leadership, Extended Aid, and Seeming Spell (Epic appareance).

So far there has been no need to use my Drow Matron Simulacrum. Because Twinned Simulacrum allows you to have a Simulacrum of yourself and the Drow Matron Mother:

+11 Perception +1d4 Guidance check is great to defeat a Stealth Creature. Search actions is always fun here

Spoiler: Drow Matron Mother Simulacruum

5etools

5e.tools

The Drow Matron Mother's Summon Servant:

Spoiler: Retriever

5etools

5e.tools

 

[nogray]

So your mighty sorcerer who rules the world only, in fact, rules a radius of a half day's walk from his fortress? Okay. That's not so much, "feared world-threat," as it is, "don't go to Rhode Island."

On the sorcerer's radius of control from his fortress:

Spoiler

The sorcerer, having no reliable fast travel, can fly at his walking speed for 8 hours a day if he wants to avoid exhaustion. A normal pace of travel for 8 hours is 24 miles. He's traveling out and back in that time, so cut that in half to 12 miles. This can be stretched by traveling at a fast pace (for disadvantage or -5 to notice things) or by extending travel past 8 hours (risking exhaustion). That size of control would fit neatly between Baltimore and Washinton DC (as in, it would not reach either city, assuming the fortress was placed directly between the cities. That 12-mile circle fits neatly into the hook part of Cape Cod, Massachusetts or Kauai Island (in Hawaii). If the sorcerer pushed himself towards exhaustion on the way out and back, he might be able to take over a region the approximate size of the main island of Hawaii. (Fast travel bumps that up to 15 miles out and back in 8 hours or 30 miles over 16 hours, pushing towards exhaustion each day.)

A few other nits to pick:

His Seeming spell is nearly useless when he is flying (as noted in a prior post). He and the simulacrum are the only two medium creatures with wings.

If he has your originally-described Seeming ("a unique heavenly appearance"), then his Mind Blank makes him stand out to True Seeing even more. Only one thing in the whole retinue can have Mind Blank active (his one 9th-level spell slot that day). That one creature's illusion remains in place while the others become apparent to the True Seeing spell.

For Hiding/Stealth, from the PHB (emphasis added): "When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Until you are discovered or you stop hiding, that check's total is contested by the Wisdom (Perception) check of any creature that actively searches for signs of your presence." So that means one decent stealth check that can easily set the DC to be located at well above any of your minions' ability to find with their pathetic perceptions. Only you and your sim have +6. Only the Drow Matron Mother has +11, so that is the only one that is really a semi-reliable spotter.

The Pegasus from Find Greater Steed that I see has a speed of only 90 ft (flying).

So there are 60 minions, you, and your simulacrum, and the DMM sim, and the greater steed. Plus two celestials? You spend the first 10 minutes*11 groups of 6 = 110 minutes (~2 hours) every day giving rousing speeches? (I'd assume that anything that expires "after a long rest" -- like temp hit points without a specified duration -- would also expire in 24 hours, but that is a bit of an assumption/GM call.)

How many of your creatures get the extended Aid spell? And which ones at what level? You only have one level 8 slot per day. That's three creatures (and the loss of ability to cast Power Word: Stun) with that tier of Aid. Unless you drop more.

For your Druid challenge, above, you mentioned that you have Power Word Stun, but in your base information, you have used your 8th level spell slot for an Extended Aid. Or was that one from your sim? Okay, then the next day, you are recasting your Wish --> Simulacrum and have no Mind Blank. (That, or you have a sim with no 8th or 9th level slots. Your call.)

I am not convinced that someone can have the Temple of the Gods occupy the same area as the Mighty Fortress. The fortress requires a place with no structures, and the temple requires an unoccupied area.

Your sorcerer has 60 Galvan Magen (from your damage calculation, above)? At CR 3 --> 3 hp each (reduced maximum hit points)? Your initial character had listed 180 base hit points. 60*3=180, so your character has zero maximum hit points, should his Aid spell ever expire. Well done! (If you ever wished for the hit points to be restored, you just might lose the ability to cast Wish ever again.) From that, it looks like no one needs to defeat the sorcerer. He defeats himself.

 

[Hohige]

So your mighty sorcerer who rules the world only, in fact, rules a radius of a half day's walk from his fortress? Okay. That's not so much, "feared world-threat," as it is, "don't go to Rhode Island."

On the sorcerer's radius of control from his fortress:

Spoiler

The sorcerer, having no reliable fast travel, can fly at his walking speed for 8 hours a day if he wants to avoid exhaustion. A normal pace of travel for 8 hours is 24 miles. He's traveling out and back in that time, so cut that in half to 12 miles. This can be stretched by traveling at a fast pace (for disadvantage or -5 to notice things) or by extending travel past 8 hours (risking exhaustion). That size of control would fit neatly between Baltimore and Washinton DC (as in, it would not reach either city, assuming the fortress was placed directly between the cities. That 12-mile circle fits neatly into the hook part of Cape Cod, Massachusetts or Kauai Island (in Hawaii). If the sorcerer pushed himself towards exhaustion on the way out and back, he might be able to take over a region the approximate size of the main island of Hawaii. (Fast travel bumps that up to 15 miles out and back in 8 hours or 30 miles over 16 hours, pushing towards exhaustion each day.)

A few other nits to pick:

His Seeming spell is nearly useless when he is flying (as noted in a prior post). He and the simulacrum are the only two medium creatures with wings.

If he has your originally-described Seeming ("a unique heavenly appearance"), then his Mind Blank makes him stand out to True Seeing even more. Only one thing in the whole retinue can have Mind Blank active (his one 9th-level spell slot that day). That one creature's illusion remains in place while the others become apparent to the True Seeing spell.

For Hiding/Stealth, from the PHB (emphasis added): "When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Until you are discovered or you stop hiding, that check's total is contested by the Wisdom (Perception) check of any creature that actively searches for signs of your presence." So that means one decent stealth check that can easily set the DC to be located at well above any of your minions' ability to find with their pathetic perceptions. Only you and your sim have +6. Only the Drow Matron Mother has +11, so that is the only one that is really a semi-reliable spotter.

The Pegasus from Find Greater Steed that I see has a speed of only 90 ft (flying).

So there are 60 minions, you, and your simulacrum, and the DMM sim, and the greater steed. Plus two celestials? You spend the first 10 minutes*11 groups of 6 = 110 minutes (~2 hours) every day giving rousing speeches? (I'd assume that anything that expires "after a long rest" -- like temp hit points without a specified duration -- would also expire in 24 hours, but that is a bit of an assumption/GM call.)

How many of your creatures get the extended Aid spell? And which ones at what level? You only have one level 8 slot per day. That's three creatures (and the loss of ability to cast Power Word: Stun) with that tier of Aid. Unless you drop more.

For your Druid challenge, above, you mentioned that you have Power Word Stun, but in your base information, you have used your 8th level spell slot for an Extended Aid. Or was that one from your sim? Okay, then the next day, you are recasting your Wish --> Simulacrum and have no Mind Blank. (That, or you have a sim with no 9th or 9th level slots. Your call.)

I am not convinced that someone can have the Temple of the Gods occupy the same area as the Mighty Fortress. The fortress requires a place with no structures, and the temple requires an unoccupied area.

Your sorcerer has 60 Galvan Magen (from your damage calculation, above)? At CR 3 --> 3 hp each (reduced maximum hit points)? Your initial character had listed 180 base hit points. 60*3=180, so your character has zero maximum hit points, should his Aid spell ever expire. Well done! (If you ever wished for the hit points to be restored, you just might lose the ability to cast Wish ever again.) From that, it looks like no one needs to defeat the sorcerer. He defeats himself.

Before everything. All of your statements made sense, so I’ll answer them all

1) "So your mighty sorcerer who rules the world only, in fact, rules a radius of a half day's walk from his fortress? Okay. That's not so much, "feared world-threat," as it is, "don't go to Rhode Island.""

The Sorcerer is not in his fortness all day. The Lore Bard that can't fly and tried (and failed) to try to kill the sorcerer while he sleeps.

2) "On the sorcerer's radius of control from his fortress:

Spoiler

The sorcerer, having no reliable fast travel, can fly at his walking speed for 8 hours a day if he wants to avoid exhaustion. A normal pace of travel for 8 hours is 24 miles. He's traveling out and back in that time, so cut that in half to 12 miles. This can be stretched by traveling at a fast pace (for disadvantage or -5 to notice things) or by extending travel past 8 hours (risking exhaustion). That size of control would fit neatly between Baltimore and Washinton DC (as in, it would not reach either city, assuming the fortress was placed directly between the cities. That 12-mile circle fits neatly into the hook part of Cape Cod, Massachusetts or Kauai Island (in Hawaii). If the sorcerer pushed himself towards exhaustion on the way out and back, he might be able to take over a region the approximate size of the main island of Hawaii. (Fast travel bumps that up to 15 miles out and back in 8 hours or 30 miles over 16 hours, pushing towards exhaustion each day.)"

Well the Sorcerer and his Simulacrum has Greater Restoration spells that bypass exaustion.

3) "His Seeming spell is nearly useless when he is flying (as noted in a prior post). He and the simulacrum are the only two medium creatures with wings."

Sure, you have 60 wingless creatures disguised, 2 medium creatures with wings(The sorcerer and his Simulacrum), 2 large winged creatures and a Medium wingless caster with a pegasus as his steeds. The real target is not clear. And clearly a caster with a pegasus is clearly the "real"spellcaster. The enemy will probably attack the MMD with his Pegasus without a doubt.

I must remind you that the Sorcerer can take off its wings as a bonus action. While he is sleeping, he removes his wings to disguise himself as all the other 60 Wingless Medium Creatures.

4) For Hiding/Stealth, from the PHB (emphasis added): "When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Until you are discovered or you stop hiding, that check's total is contested by the Wisdom (Perception) check of any creature that actively searches for signs of your presence." So that means one decent stealth check that can easily set the DC to be located at well above any of your minions' ability to find with their pathetic perceptions. Only you and your sim have +6. Only the Drow Matron Mother has +11, so that is the only one that is really a semi-reliable spotter."

Well, The MMD with his Guidance +1d4 and +11 with advantage (Help action) using Seach Action each turn will certainly find a stealthy creature pretty easily. It's not Semi-reliable, It will beat the enemy's stealth check.

5) So there are 60 minions, you, and your simulacrum, and the DMM sim, and the greater steed. Plus two celestials? You spend the first 10 minutes*11 groups of 6 = 110 minutes (~2 hours) every day giving rousing speeches? (I'd assume that anything that expires "after a long rest" -- like temp hit points without a specified duration -- would also expire in 24 hours, but that is a bit of an assumption/GM call.)

Temporary HP:
Unless a feature that grants you temporary hit points has a duration, they last until they're depleted or you finish a long rest.

So, The Magen minions doesn't sleep. So Inspire Leadership lasts until they're depleted.
Also, the Simulacrum can use Inspire Leadership.

10 minute is enough, 2 Celestials, Sorcerer, 2 Simulacrum, Pegasus.

4) "If he has your originally-described Seeming ("a unique heavenly appearance"), then his Mind Blank makes him stand out to True Seeing even more. Only one thing in the whole retinue can have Mind Blank active (his one 9th-level spell slot that day). That one creature's illusion remains in place while the others become apparent to the True Seeing spell."

The Sorcerer and the MMD is with Mind Blank (Twinned), both them are disguised physicall and magically as disguised. Remember that True Sight is only 120ft.
The MMD is a clear spellcaster.


4) How many of your creatures get the extended Aid spell? And which ones at what level? You only have one level 8 slot per day. That's three creatures (and the loss of ability to cast Power Word: Stun) with that tier of Aid. Unless you drop more.

Extended Aid 8th spell is Sorcerer, Simulacrum and MMD.

Extended level 5th spell is for Celestials and Pegasus.

5) For your Druid challenge, above, you mentioned that you have Power Word Stun, but in your base information, you have used your 8th level spell slot for an Extended Aid. Or was that one from your sim? Okay, then the next day, you are recasting your Wish --> Simulacrum and have no Mind Blank. (That, or you have a sim with no 9th or 9th level slots. Your call.)

Well, well each level 20 challenge, the Sorcerer will rest and regenerate its power.
I doubt that there will be any need to spend Power Word Stun against a Moon Druid. He will die long before and really fast.

6) I am not convinced that someone can have the Temple of the Gods occupy the same area as the Mighty Fortress. The fortress requires a place with no structures, and the temple requires an unoccupied area.

I believe it occupies the same area, but it doesn't matter much the idea is just to protect against Desintegrate spell. Might Fortness and other spells need only create a full cover for the Temple of Gods.

7) "Your sorcerer has 60 Galvan Magen (from your damage calculation, above)? At CR 3 --> 3 hp each (reduced maximum hit points)? Your initial character had listed 180 base hit points. 60*3=180, so your character has zero maximum hit points, should his Aid spell ever expire. Well done! (If you ever wished for the hit points to be restored, you just might lose the ability to cast Wish ever again.) From that, it looks like no one needs to defeat the sorcerer. He defeats himself. "

No, It's not zero maximum hit points.

Not everyone is Galven Magen, there is a large part that is Hypnos Magen and Twinned Finger of Death's Zombies.
Lets consider 60 Galven Magen for easy math.

The Sorcerer HP is 182 (19 level x 9 + 1 level x11 first level is maximed dice).
-180 (3x60). Remains 2 HP.

The Sorcerer HP is 61, With Extended Aid and Inspire Leadership. Warding bond for 122 real HP, With Unearthy Recovery, the real HP is 183. Extended Death Ward is always good.
It means a single Heal spell regain all Sorcerer's HP instantly.

 

[Hohige]

Alternative to Demigod build (Lighting Themed)

Behold, The Lightning Demigod

Stats
Race: Scourge Aasimar (+2 CHA +1 CON)
Classes: Storm Sorcerer 20
Stats (Point Buy): 8 STR / 14 DEX / 15 CON / 10 INT / 10 WIS / 14 CHA
ASIs: Actor (+1 CHA), Skill Expert (Deception +1CHA), Metamagic Adept, Inspire Leadership, Tough
Final Stats: 8 STR / 14 DEX / 16 CON / 10 INT / 10 WIS / 18 CHA
Final HP: 182 + 24 (Inspire Leadership)


Disguise kit, Expertise Deception, Actor feat, Magical Guidance, Extended Seeming Spell. It can be everything.
Metamagics: Quicken, Twin, Extended, Subtle, Distant, Empower
Wished Contingency condition: When a enemy invisibility spell ends closer than 121ft. (Cast Greater Invisibility)

Spell Known:

Spells
1 - Mage Armor, Shield
2 - Earthbind
3 - Counterspell, Dispel, Lightning Bolt
4 - Dimention Door, Greater Invisibility
5 - Seeming Spell, Insect Plague
6 - Freezing Sphere, Disintegrate
7 - Finger of Death, Etherealness
8 - Power Word Stun
9 - Wish



Loyal and Reliable Minions:

Extended Seeeming spell on all your allies to have a unique Magen appereance.
In practice, this works like an Improved Mirror Image, creating multiple copies of you.
You can cast spells with impunity with subtle spells and enemies will not be able to find out who the real caster is.
Naruto's Shadow Clone.
The Sorcerer and all of his allies can fly.
The Sorcerer, His Simulacrum can fly at speed of 60fts and The Storm Sorcerer has immunity to lightning and thunder damage.

Wind Soul​

At 18th level, you gain immunity to lightning and thunder damage.

You also gain a magical flying speed of 60 feet. As an action, you can reduce your flying speed to 30 feet for 1 hour and choose a number of creatures within 30 feet of you equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. The chosen creatures gain a magical flying speed of 30 feet for 1 hour. Once you reduce your flying speed in this way, you can't do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

1) Twinned Simulacrum.

The Storm Sorcerer creates a Simulacrum of himself and a Matron Mother Drow.

The MMD is riding a Pegasus (Wished Find Greater Steeds), buffed with Inspire Leadership.

2) Wished Create Magen.
With, Inspire Leadership and Tough feat.
You can create several of these constructs, because you have a lot of HP available. You can also buff them with Inspire Leadership spell.

Galven Magen is the best pick.
Flying creature
Static Discharge (Recharge 5–6).
The magen discharges a lightning bolt in a 60-foot line that is 5 feet wide. Each creature in that line must make a DC 14 Dexterity saving throw (with disadvantage if the creature is wearing armor made of metal), taking 22 (4d10) lightning damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

3) Twin Finger of Death

It is a reliable way to expand your arm. 2x faster than any other spellcaster.

4) You have super strong long range spells, combined with Aasimar Ability. You can deals incredible damage. Long range spell combined with flight spell is insane.
All doubled with Simulacrum

Empowered Distant 6th Freezing Sphere can deal 125 damage.
Empowered Distant 5th Insect Plague can deal 84 piercing damage at 660fts, each turn

5) The Sorcerer and his can regain 4 Sorcery Points, converting into new spells slots.


Why the Storm Sorcerer?

Well, he doesn't need wings to fly. Which allows you to disguise yourself perfectly with your Wingless Galven Magen. (Seeming Spell, Disguise kit and Deception check)
The enemy simply cannot distinguish who his enemy is.

Immunity to Lighting damage. This is incredibly powerful, because the enemy's Galven Magen does not threaten the sorcerer. Being completely immune to them. But the enemy are vulnerable to his Galven Magen Minions.

Your Galven Magen can freely cast
Static Discharge (Recharge 5–6). The magen discharges a lightning bolt in a 60-foot line that is 5 feet wide. Each creature in that line must make a DC 14 Dexterity saving throw (with disadvantage if the creature is wearing armor made of metal), taking 22 (4d10) lightning damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
The Storm Sorcerer has immunity to lighting damage.


Wingless Flight speed 60ft is really fast and this creates a great advantage in long range spells.

Mainly, The Lightning God is a lot of fun and perfectly themed.


One vs One
No multiclassing
No magical items
No infinite loops
No coffeelocking