D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Standing up from prone draws AoOs?

[Storm Raven]

Yeah, but at the same time, you can also grab a quarterstaff off of the ground without making yourself open to attack, now don't you? Despite what martial arts may say (and I'm an amatuer martial artist myself...) I'm saying that the mechanic doesn't hold water. If getting up off the ground DOESN'T provoke an AoO, then why does picking up a weapon off of the ground?

Because you have to look down at the quarterstaff to pick it up, but you can keep your attention on your opponent while you stand up.

 

[Pielorinho]

Crap. Another house-rule, and hopefully something that will be changed in the errata.

The only way this rule could be reasonable would be if they take out the "get an extra attack for tripping" feature of Improved Trip. Otherwise, triphappy opponents become extraordinarily nasty, instead of just nasty (as they were before).

Daniel

 

[hong]

Crap. Another house-rule, and hopefully something that will be changed in the errata.

The only way this rule could be reasonable would be if they take out the "get an extra attack for tripping" feature of Improved Trip. Otherwise, triphappy opponents become extraordinarily nasty, instead of just nasty (as they were before).

From the compiled 3.5E revisions thread:


f. Improved Trip grants a +4 to trip attacks, trip attacks ignore Attacks of Opportunity, in addition to its 3.0 abilities (attack following successful trip). Note that trip attacks without Improved Trip do not cause an attack of opportunity if the attacker has Improved Unarmed Strike or uses a tripping weapon.


(Implied here is that trip attacks do normally incur an AoO.)

 

[youspoonybard]

Tripping is still harder to do than disarming, really, and picking that weapon up would invoke an AoO, if I'm not mistaken. I'd still go the disarming route.

 

[Pielorinho]

(Implied here is that trip attacks do normally incur an AoO.)

Yeah, they normally do. But either I'm not getting your point, or you're not getting mine.

What I'm saying is that now a person with improved trip can keep their opponent on the ground more-or-less constantly, and get an attack on the prone opponent every single time they go down. That makes it exceedingly difficult to stand up against a tripper.

Maybe I was unclear when I suggested they take the "get an extra attack for tripping" section out of Improved Trip. I wasn't referring to the AoO a trippee gets to take; I was referring to the extra attack a tripper gets to make on the trippee if the trip attempt is successful and the tripper has Improved Trip. That's MUCH clearer, right?

Daniel

 

[Li Shenron]

What I'm saying is that now a person with improved trip can keep their opponent on the ground more-or-less constantly, and get an attack on the prone opponent every single time they go down.

Not to mention that a DM could rule that if the tripping AoO is successful, the "tripper" may get a second attack because of the other benefit of Improved Trip.

 

[Wolffenjugend]

Just b/c a martial artist receives training to get up from prone while avoiding attacks doesn't mean that attacks never occur. I've seen plenty of martial artists get their butts kicked when they try to get up from the mat.

Training to get up is good and all, but when you're fighting someone who knows what they're doing (i.e. a Fighter or martial artist), then any advantage such training provides is nullified by the fact that your opponent has the same training.

AoO for getting up from prone makes perfect sense. Maybe it doesn't mesh well with the rules, but it makes sense.

p.s. try doing a kip-up in a real fight with an opponent who knows what they're doing. You'll get hurt. Bad.

 

[DonAdam]

I think I'll go with this rule, but use an easy fix: the attack gained from Improved Trip is an attack of opportunity. Of course that's only a fix if you're still limited to 1 AoO per opponent per round, but I'll be keeping that around as well.

 

[Pielorinho]

Not to mention that a DM could rule that if the tripping AoO is successful, the "tripper" may get a second attack because of the other benefit of Improved Trip.

My point exactly -- except that this isn't a judgement call on the DM's part. Rather, this is what the rules would unambiguously call for. The combat would look like this:

Opponent with combat reflexes, improved trip, and a reach weapon: I delay.
Poor Player: I charge that mofo!
Opponent: Ooh, an Attack of Opportunity, eh? I trip him. W00t! He's down! I use my extra attack to whale on him!
Poor Player: Crap, that ends my turn, right?
Opponent: I stop delaying. I whale on him! I whale on him!
Poor Player: My turn again? Fine, I stand up, step forward 5' --
Opponent: Not so fast! You stand up? I take an AoO to trip you. W00t! You're down! I use my extra attack to whale on you!
Poor player: Crap! Fine, I use my remaining action to try to stand up again, and then I'll move back 5' --
Opponent: Not so fast! You stand up? I take another AoO to trip you again. W00t! You're down! I use my extra attack to whale on you!
Poor player: Crap, that ends my turn, right?

You see the problem. Under the old rules, at least the poor player could have stood up, moved forward 5', and gotten a single attack off on the Opponent without fearing an AoO; as it is now, if the tripper's got enough of a tripping advantage, the poor player can never close in.

Daniel

 

[Dinkeldog]

I'd go with the kip up is a tumble move. There might be the possibility of introducing a feat that allows one to regain their feet without drawing an attack of opportunity.