D&D (2024) 4/26 Playtest: The Fighter

[ZetaShift]

You can't put any mastery on any weapon. So they are all still different.

Not sure it's worth the complexity of having to look up what ability is allowed on what weapon, but they are different.

Yeah there are restrictions,, but what's to stop the fighter from using a graze maul or a topple greatsword? I don't like that they virtually become meaningless to the fighter at certain levels.

 

[mellored]

Yeah there are restrictions,, but what's to stop the fighter from using a graze maul or a topple greatsword? I don't like that they virtually become meaningless to the fighter at certain levels.

But only to the higher level fighter. That's their one feature no one else gets.

Barbarian, monk (presumably), and anyone who takes the feat, the weapon matters.

Which was the 2 goals. It's a but clunky, but it does accomplish those.

 

[Shardstone]

My only real issue with weapon mastery is that it puts a huge focus on gear, but the gear still isn't that interesting. There's not a good slot or bag system in 5E, and no encumbrance system worth using that isn't completely homebrewed, so gear feels more like a "put it in the bag and forget it until I accidentally remember it" not a rotational part of your kit. IT also isn't easy rotating through weapons IMO in D&D. I would need weapon cards, really, or a prompt that asks me what weapon and what weapon mastery t oapply, which obvs can't happen outside of a VTT.

I like Weapon Mastery a lot, I just think it should be put behind fewer mechanical gates.

 

[Shardstone]

There are 9 masteries, You referred to a single one. Let's check the others.

• Cleave doesn't allow for more attacks, it is one extra attack from 1 to 17
• Flex damage doesn't increase from 1 to 17, it is just the single die step
• Graze doesn't do more damage, it is always ability mod from 1 to 17
• Nick doesn't allow for more attacks, it is just the single attack without a bonus action
• Sap, well disadvantage doesn't stack. I suppose you could spread out that disadvantage, but when surrounded by four enemies, I'll let you ruminate on the efficacy of spreading your attacks like that.
• Slow specifically prevents you from stacking it, so again, your best way to do so is to spread your attacks to multiple targets.
• Topple, you can't knock a target super-prone, so your only way of improving it is to spread your attacks to multiple targets
• Vex always just gives advantage on your next attack.

So... you literally picked the ONLY mastery that can stack with itself, and tried to say that was the standard for all of them. Where as five of them don't stack or improve at all, and three of them only "improve" by spreading your atacks to multiple targets, which is a tactically poor choice in nearly all instances.

You make a very strong point here actually. The masteries do need to scale, or else some of them are a bit troll, particularly Cleave, at higher levels.

 

[Shardstone]

Isn't the Barbarian the simple martial class? All you do is rage and hit things and make skill checks.

 

[ZetaShift]

But only to the higher level fighter. That's their one feature no one else gets.

Barbarian, monk (presumably), and anyone who takes the feat, the weapon matters.

Which was the 2 goals. It's a but clunky, but it does accomplish those.

Yes but that's my issue. If weapons are to be different, then they shouldn't be able to swap them on the fly. Hence is why I'd rather them emphasize base properties to make weapons different and turn "masteries" into "techniques" that you can apply to any weapon.

 

[Stalker0]

You make a very strong point here actually. The masteries do need to scale, or else some of them are a bit troll, particularly Cleave, at higher levels.

I disagree. First, Graze does scale as your ability mod goes up. Sure some of them only give an extra attack, but your attack damage goes up with level, and you often get extra riders and things from magic weapons, so again that 1 attack is more powerful than they were before.

Further, there are the combos that can make your abilities cooler. Take for example push. Ok I hit a guy in melee and push him 10 feet, big whoop right? Now combine that with a cleric using spirit guardians. Now I can push a guy 10 feet, and move back with my cleric buddy, positioned in a way that if the monster comes back it will have to move more than 30 feet (due to the half speed of the spirit guardian effect)....and now has to double move to get to us. Suddenly you have taken out the entire offense of that melee monster, and can do this over and over and over again.

Topple is nice, topple versus flying monsters could be deadly, and those become more common at higher levels, etc.

 

[mellored]

You make a very strong point here actually. The masteries do need to scale, or else some of them are a bit troll, particularly Cleave, at higher levels.

60% chance to cleave at level 1
84% chance to cleave at level 5
93% chance to cleave at level 11
97% chance to cleave at level 17

Not to mention magic weapons, and the ability to swap after you trigger it.

 

[Stalker0]

I think people are focusing too much on the trees and missing the forest here. People are looking at the maneuvers in a box, and forgetting what can be done with other abilities or party combos.

I mentioned one above about using push with spirit guardians, or push with a variety of damaging terrain spells.

Now take topple, which you can follow up with a grapple attack to prevent the target from getting back up, and now just being subject to advantage on attacks from everyone. Sure you can do this with 2 grapples now, but this way you can get in your good damage as well.

Graze can be really useful fighting an invisible enemy. If I know what square they are in, even at disadvantage I'm still bringing pain.

Nick can be combined with the haste spell for even more attacks (as now that attack action can also bring in the TWF attack).

 

[Undrave]

I'm actually very surprised by how against the idea of "golf-bag fighter" is in this community. I thought that was the default of the fighter anyways.

You keep a greatsword for maximum damage, a longsword and shield if your goal is to have extra AC, a bow/xbow for ranged situations, a lance (if you have a reliable mount), a net because why not, and a few holy waters, acids, and alchemist's fires.

Having even more weapons with even more unique properties and uses really builds into the fantasy I have of "general master of weapons."

The game doesn’t reward you for going golf bag. You pick a fighting style, and that fighting style basically deciding if you go Sword and Board, Two Hander, or Ranged. The Defense style that gives a bonus to AC is the more versatile.

But there is literally no reason to have more than two weapons: Your main one and a ranged option if you don’t have one. If you’re going heavy armor, you’ll pick up some hand axes or javelin because you didn’t invest in DEX and that makes you more accurate. If you’re ranged you might have a rapier in case you need to melee. Losing the benefit of your Fighting style, and potentially feats, is not worth going for a different load out. And damage type are basically meaningless in about 99% of encounters.