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D&D (2024) 48 Subclasses: 4 per Class

I could see a version of the Wizard in which all the Schools subclasses are reduced to a single "Specialist" subclass.

Design the School Specialist subclass simular to the Circle of the Land Druid, problem sovled.

Holy Order functionally absords War, Knowledge, Arcana (maybe), Domains. That leaves Trickery, Tempest, Nature, Light. I'd personally turn Tempest into Elemental (simular to Circle of the Land Druid) with Air being the old school tempest style, with more wind added). Drop nature, it's heavy over lap with Druids and you can just Holy Order Scholar for nature skill. That leave the Domains as Life, Light, Trickery, and Elemental (or Tempest).

That gives space enough for all the classes to get 4 subclasses.

Sorcerer say Wild, Draconic, Divine, and Shadow (or Psion).

Rogue Thief, Arcane Trickster, Assassin and maybe Soulblade?

Paladin Devotion, Ancients, Avenger, and Conquest or something new.

Monk Open Palm, Shadow, Elements, and drunken master (or new one).

Bard Lore, Valour (or Swords), Jester, new one.

Warlock Fiend, Fey, Old One, Undead (Hexblade my guess will be absorbed into the blade pact).

Fighter Eldrich Knight, Arcane Archer, Champion, Battlemaster.

Ranger Hunter, Beastmaster, and two new ones.

Wizard Specialist, Generalist (new), Warmage, and Bladesinger.

Cleric Trickery, Life, Light, and Elemental or Tempest.

Barbarian Totem, Bezerker, Ancestoral, Storm Herald (because the Barbarian in the movie I believe is the Storm Herald).

Druid Moon, Land, Wildfire, new.

Just guesses.
 
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The original Barbarian didn’t have rage. It had restrictions against using magic items, but got some ranger-like skills and at higher levels could bypass immunities to nonmagical attacks. Rage, if I’m not mistaken, was added in 3e.
You aren't mistaken. Barbarian ability to use magic by level is (I think) below
  1. May associate freely with clerics.
  2. May use potions.
  3. May use magic weapons.
  4. May use magic armor.
  5. May associate with magic-users (and their sub-classes) if the need is great.
  6. May use weapon-like miscellaneous magic items.
  7. May associate with magic-users occasionally.
  8. May use protection scrolls.
  9. May use most magic items available to fighters.
Yeah, it was a mess.
 


DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
My big hope is that besides updating the mandatory SRD subclasses, they'll use the space to make new subclasses instead of rehashing the 2014 ones.
At the very least I'd expect that most of the subclasses that appears in the 2014 PHB will get remade because those are the ones that are getting "replaced" by a new book.

Now obviously some of them might get re-worked-- like the eight Wizards schools might all get condensed into a single subclass like the Land Druid, which then opens up more slots for other subclasses-- but I would be very surprised if they just did away with all the old ones. After all... after players have spent 10 years complaining about how the 4 Elements Monk and the Berserker Barbarian needed a revision... if their solution upon doing an update was to just remove the 4 Elements Monk and Berserker from the game entirely? That seems unwise and unnecessary.

At least by doing 4 subclasses each... they will be able to keep most of the 2014 subclasses in, while adding in one or two more "new" ones per class. Although even then they might very well be subclasses that have appeared in previous books (like the Storm Sorcerer or the College of Swords Bard.)
 

TwoSix

"Diegetics", by L. Ron Gygax
At the very least I'd expect that most of the subclasses that appears in the 2014 PHB will get remade because those are the ones that are getting "replaced" by a new book.

Now obviously some of them might get re-worked-- like the eight Wizards schools might all get condensed into a single subclass like the Land Druid, which then opens up more slots for other subclasses-- but I would be very surprised if they just did away with all the old ones. After all... after players have spent 10 years complaining about how the 4 Elements Monk and the Berserker Barbarian needed a revision... if their solution upon doing an update was to just remove the 4 Elements Monk and Berserker from the game entirely? That seems unwise and unnecessary.

At least by doing 4 subclasses each... they will be able to keep most of the 2014 subclasses in, while adding in one or two more "new" ones per class. Although even then they might very well be subclasses that have appeared in previous books (like the Storm Sorcerer or the College of Swords Bard.)
Well, I'm kind of hoping they'll be sending an implicit message that you can use all your current stuff with the new stuff by allowing the 2014 subclasses to stay in the game unmodified. That D&D1 is a continuation, not a revision. If they update everything, they're sending a message that old stuff shouldn't be used anymore.

And selfishly, I just want a book of actual new material. Revised ideas that honestly worked fine before with a little tweaking are much less exciting than actual new ideas.
 

Well, I'm kind of hoping they'll be sending an implicit message that you can use all your current stuff with the new stuff by allowing the 2014 subclasses to stay in the game unmodified. That D&D1 is a continuation, not a revision. If they update everything, they're sending a message that old stuff shouldn't be used anymore.

And selfishly, I just want a book of actual new material. Revised ideas that honestly worked fine before with a little tweaking are much less exciting than actual new ideas.

But 4e is so long ago now, that a uniform advancement table for subclasses won't be a reason to raise the pitchforks and torches.

With this problem out of the way, there are few reasons left to not correct the error and opening new design space.

Leaving a clear inferior rule in the book, just out of nostalgia is a bad idea.
In the playtest they actually aknowledge the problem with compatibility and promise to add a solution in the 2024 book. (I expect an appendix at least in the first few printings).
 

TwoSix

"Diegetics", by L. Ron Gygax
But 4e is so long ago now, that a uniform advancement table for subclasses won't be a reason to raise the pitchforks and torches.

With this problem out of the way, there are few reasons left to not correct the error and opening new design space.

Leaving a clear inferior rule in the book, just out of nostalgia is a bad idea.
In the playtest they actually acknowledge the problem with compatibility and promise to add a solution in the 2024 book. (I expect an appendix at least in the first few printings).
Well, I think there's a difference between putting a new take on obviously inferior subclasses like 4 Elements monk and Berzerker barbarian, and republishing subclasses like Draconic sorcerer and Shadow monk that work fine and probably just need a little conversion guide.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Jeremy Crawford revealed in a recent video on playtest feedback that there will be 48 subclasses in the 1D&D PHB: 4 per class. 😈

It's time to speculate.

ETA: This thread may get more traction if I began speculating so people could come tell me how I was wrong. ;)
Someone probably brought this up, but it's 48 Subclasses in the playtest, ot necessarily all will end up in the PHB, or only those. Still, a 20% increases in the number of options over the 2014 PHB. Also note that per the latest playtest (below) they plan to make it so that all 5E Subclasses will work with the final printed versions of the revised Classes, so no Subclass is really going away per se.

Screenshot_20221205_094846.jpg
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Well, I'm kind of hoping they'll be sending an implicit message that you can use all your current stuff with the new stuff by allowing the 2014 subclasses to stay in the game unmodified. That D&D1 is a continuation, not a revision. If they update everything, they're sending a message that old stuff shouldn't be used anymore.

And selfishly, I just want a book of actual new material. Revised ideas that honestly worked fine before with a little tweaking are much less exciting than actual new ideas.
No implicit about it, they made it explicit that all old Subclasses will work with the final version of any revised Class. So SCAG or PHB 2014 Subclasses thst never get reprinted will still work, and old Setting books remain relevant and useful.
 

TwoSix

"Diegetics", by L. Ron Gygax
No implicit about it, they made it explicit that all old Subclasses will work with the final version of any revised Class. So SCAG or PHB 2014 Subclasses thst never get reprinted will still work, and old Setting books remain relevant and useful.
Right, exactly. Which is why I don't want them to waste space in the new PHB reprinting stuff that already works fine. New stuff for everyone!
 

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