D&D 4E 4e and anime

[The Ubbergeek]

"When we last left your characters in the Kingdom of Hentai..."

you mock it, but something like Lodoss War would be close to D&D's classics, no?

 

[helium3]

I like anime...but my childhood exposure to it was mostly from futuristic films like Akira. So it doesn't feel right with my preconceived notions of what D&D should be.

But man...if I'm playing D20 Modern, I'm all over it. All. Over. It.

I disagree. I totally want the big bad to uncontrollably mutate into a giant pulsing ball of flesh that crushes to death everything it used to love.

 

[Fieari]

you mock it, but something like Lodoss War would be close to D&D's classics, no?

As far as I'm aware, Lodoss was BASED on D&D. According to wikipedia, it's based on D&D and a japanese RPG called "Sword World".

 

[The_Fan]

Bastard! was also based on D&D...or at least D&D bookcovers, mixed with 70s heavy metal album covers.

 

[Nifft]

Bastard! was also based on D&D...or at least D&D bookcovers, mixed with 70s heavy metal album covers.

Would the game include a sound track?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Hussar]

IMHO the basic D&D game should be a simple ruleset that assumes a generic traditional Western fantasy setting (based heavily on actual legends and the classic fantasy authors). Other styles of play (wire-fu & anime, science fantasy, dark gothic fantasy, historical earth, etc.) should be available as modular add-ons that do not change the expected baseline. The basic rules should be written in such a way that additional rules and settings can easily slot-in and simply replace baseline rules elements, if players desire. This way, those who want an anime-style game under the D&D name can have it, and those who want traditional Western fantasy can have it too. As it is, it doesn't look like 4th edition D&D is going to be that kind of game. Rather, it seems that new D&D's flavor is going to be very specific to itself, and hard-wired into the rules. Oh well, every corporation has to have their "New Coke".

You mean the earlier versions with robots, Godzilla, and expeditions to Alice in Wonderland? What edition was ever heavily based on actual legends and classic fantasy authors?

And Homer, Malory, and the authors who wrote the legends of Charlemagne, Beowulf, etc.



Sure is. And it's still better than what WOTC is now trying to sell us! A mish-mosh made of gold is still made of gold. An intricate sculpture of crap is always made of crap.

Oh, you mean that fantasy that isn't actually fantasy but only part of fantasy when it suits people to include it. Gotcha.

What I don't understand is how you can make your definition of fantasy so broad that it includes Homer, but, doesn't include Princess of Mononoke. What kind of logical contortions does that require?

 

[Hyudra]

That said, I loathe anime. I think almost all of it is poorly done (from an artistic point of view) I think most of them are unintentionally comical (some are probably intentionally comical, but then imo it stops being funny), both as far the stories go, as well as the general 'feel' and look.

General 'feel' varies form perspective to perspective. As for look, it ranges from the realistic to the ridonkulous.

I'm a fan of anime, and I think you're missing out, particularly if you're basing your opinions on the shows that Cartoon Network decides to show (the ones that appeal to the teen male demographic). There's some really great anime work out there, and I think you're missing out on all sorts of creative inspiration if you're refusing to adknowledge an entire genre.

Now & Then, Here & There is a pretty good example. I know several people who aren't into anime, who've gotten their hands on it & watched it from start to finish in one setting (13 episodes). The first ep is kind of tame/lame, but things definitely pick up after that. It's a moderately sci-fi setting, but there's a wealth of details, dilemmas & characters worth putting into a D&D setting.

A little late to the party, but I just discovered Avatar: The Last Airbender/The Legend of Aang. I wouldn't mind at all if 4e looked like that.

There's currently a 3.5e setting project going on here where they're creating a non/low magic system which fits the show's themes.

The 'magic' in the setting is based on Chakra, and using the flow of the body's energies to manipulate the 4 classic elements ('bending'). The bending classes were originally based off of the warlock, but have been reworked into a second version with a skill based class. Still a lot of work to be done, but I think it's interesting, theme-wise.

 

[Cadfan]

My personal preference is just to D&D-ize anime tropes, and toss them into the mix for players to pick and choose as they prefer.

Players want a character with an anime-sized giant sword? Ok... we've got feats for wielding large greatswords.

Player wants a ninja that runs on rooftops and throws shuriken at people? Ok... take the scout, give it Shuriken Proficiency for free, take away the shortbow, maybe slightly rebalance a little to account for the reduced range, and BAM! Instant anime ninja.

Player wants a wandering ronin swordsman? Ok... now we're getting into tougher categories. The guy needs to use a katana, not wear armor, and be a master at melee combat. So... warblade, compromise on the "no armor" for "light armor," and focus on Iron Heart.

Next player wants an Iajutsu master who draws, attacks once, and sheathes? I had this one in actual game, before there was an iajutsu class. Rogue with Improved Feint and Quickdraw, and a house ruling that he could re sheathe his blade as a free action with Quickdraw.

Magical girl who flies and shoots energy at people? Ok, easy one! Warlock! With the right choices of Invocations, she can even shoot magical light that blinds people. The fact that she'll probably be wearing a chain shirt is acceptable compromise. Get her a pet gerbil and call this one done.

I can do this for a pretty long time.

But I do get stuck once you get to mixing magic and martial prowess. I can do that with houserules, but my preference, as above, is for minimal house ruling and mostly constructing my genre altered characters from the building blocks already available in the setting.

Swordsman who mostly fights in melee combat, but who can throw down a cone of flame once in a while? Ok... there are magic items that do that, but those don't scale right. I could houserule them to scale, but that still misses the way that anime magic is usually internal, not gear related. How about a training session with a grand master, followed by ritual tatoos of the wrists (expensive ink, and uses up the wrist slot) that grants the character a scalable cone of flame, matching the dragon disciple's breath weapon in strength but usable less often? Done.

I guess the point of this post is this:

1: Anime is already in D&D if you want it to be, and not in D&D if you don't want it to be.
2: Often an "anime" genre character is indistinguishable from a non anime genre character, in terms of game mechanics.
3: Most anime genre characters can mix with the rest of the party without anyone noticing. The differences between my swordsman with the cone of fire, and a D&D fighter with a sword that shoots a cone of fire, are rather minor. If you just saw the character sheet, you wouldn't even know one was designed to be anime.

I believe in a "big tent" sort of D&D, where the PCs are relatively unique. So if my world doesn't feature magical girls, but I have a player who wants to play a girl who flies and shoots light at bad guys and is nice to animals and children, well, I can handle that.

Can anyone think of an anime character archetype, appropriate to a fantasy universe, that can't be created in 3e if you accept a certain amount of compromise with the tropes of D&D?

I say, "appropriate to a fantasy universe," because I want to disallow mecha starship captains and martial artists who fly into space and blow up planets.

 

[Clavis]

You mean the earlier versions with robots, Godzilla, and expeditions to Alice in Wonderland? What edition was ever heavily based on actual legends and classic fantasy authors?

The science fantasy elements of early D&D simply show the influence of Jack Vance's Dying Earth series. As for "Alice", certainly you're not suggesting that Lewis Carroll's work isn't classic, Western, or fantastic? As for "Godzilla", Japanese movie monsters appeared in the 1st Ed. Oriental Adventures book.

Oh, you mean that fantasy that isn't actually fantasy but only part of fantasy when it suits people to include it. Gotcha.

The Greek myths and Medieval romances aren't part of the Western fantasy tradition? One of Tolkien's intentions, for instance, was to create a modern myth for the English people, in conscious imitation of classical legend and myth. There's a pretty clear literary descent from Beowulf to Lord of the Rings. For another example, the names in Howard's Hyborean tales are taken from classical mythology. The 20th century fantasy authors that D&D was clearly based on were themselves part of the larger tradition of the fantastic in Western literature.
Gotcha back.

What I don't understand is how you can make your definition of fantasy so broad that it includes Homer, but, doesn't include Princess of Mononoke. What kind of logical contortions does that require?

I never said that D&D shouldn't support Asian-influenced fantasy. I only said that the baseline should be classic Western fantasy, with other things as add-ons.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Sounds great, but it also sounds that sounds pretty far from the norm, a little like SepulchraveII's wonderful Tales of Wyre story hour. Personally, I can't make D&D support anything quite so weighty.

"The norm" is awfully hard to define when it comes to D&D. Personally, I've encountered far more players and DMs who were either trying to ape their favorite fantasy fiction (with mixed success) or to adapt the game to a specific, original gameworld or scenario than to embrace D&D's wacky mixed-bag superhero/martial arts/space opera/fantasy implications. The major exception is the Arduin campaign I ran in the early 80s, which featured insectoid aliens, cartoon characters, robots, and all sorts of other random stuff.