(5.24 PBP) Vault Redux (OOC) Fitz's Refresher

[MetaVoid]

I'm just saying that rules and laws supported such things - either because it was divine purpose, wild wild west where laws where set, but enforcement was by sheriffs with lots of leeway...i.e. in tyrannical governments rules and laws forbid speaking against the regime...it is not right, but it is LAWFUL. And for people in ancient times, brutal punishment was the right way (cutting hands off thieves was acceptable unless you were a thief )

My point is, what we perceive as acceptable because we grew up in free world may be quite different to how characters see the world even beyond having different personalities that we roleplay and magical world around them.

In character context: Torhak is hunter-ranger, and not good alignment. If the group says kill them, he will. But giving them to kobolds or lizardmen...we spared them and gave them a chance. Same with letting them go. We didn't kill you, but didn't help you either. If you interfere, we will not talk next time.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I'm just saying that rules and laws supported such things - either because it was divine purpose, wild wild west where laws where set, but enforcement was by sheriffs with lots of leeway...i.e. in tyrannical governments rules and laws forbid speaking against the regime...it is not right, but it is LAWFUL. And for people in ancient times, brutal punishment was the right way (cutting hands off thieves was acceptable unless you were a thief )

My point is, what we perceive as acceptable because we grew up in free world may be quite different to how characters see the world even beyond having different personalities that we roleplay and magical world around them.

In character context: Torhak is hunter-ranger, and not good alignment. If the group says kill them, he will. But giving them to kobolds or lizardmen...we spared them and gave them a chance. Same with letting them go. We didn't kill you, but didn't help you either. If you interfere, we will not talk next time.

I don't disagree with you, either on history, nor on your character choices.

However, I often find that PCs are quick to judge NPCs as "bad" and themselves as "good" (or righteous at least) when it is often more... mixed.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Team Caves

@MetaVoid Valendra thinks we are Bhalites because shamal has a symbol of Bhal on his forehead. She hasn't even seen the statue we're carrying. Also, Merrick lit a torch right at the beginning of the interrogation.

So, I think I've figured out a good compromise:

Hire a party of kobolds, with Pikki in the lead, to escort them away from the mountains in a direction that won't allow them to get reinforcements. Take the mercenaries' weapons, except for maybe a dagger and take her notes with the threat of destroying the notes if they try to come back. We will return the notes in a week's time (post adventure) - along with her spellbook. Or she can come back later to get it.

That gives them the best chance of survival and keeps them out of our hair. It also gives the wizardess the hope to retrieve her spellbook and notes - which will make her more willing to accept - even if it's a less than ideal situation for her.

 

[Kobold Stew]

We don't have her spellbook, I don't think, only her notes. But whatever. We'll see what the notes indicate (if anything) and then proceed.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

We don't have her spellbook, I don't think, only her notes. But whatever. We'll see what the notes indicate (if anything) and then proceed.

Her spell book is in her footlocker in her room. We can negotiate to get it back to her eventually.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Also, double post. It might be easier to pay a group of kobolds with food. A lot of them seem underfed. Getting paid in rations to leave the Warren for a few days would be plenty and they’ll probably eat better than they have been. Merrick has 8 or 10 days rations. That’s enough to pay 5 kobolds to escort them 1 day out and back.

 

[MetaVoid]

Team Caves

@MetaVoid Valendra thinks we are Bhalites because shamal has a symbol of Bhal on his forehead. She hasn't even seen the statue we're carrying. Also, Merrick lit a torch right at the beginning of the interrogation.

So, I think I've figured out a good compromise:

Hire a party of kobolds, with Pikki in the lead, to escort them away from the mountains in a direction that won't allow them to get reinforcements. Take the mercenaries' weapons, except for maybe a dagger and take her notes with the threat of destroying the notes if they try to come back. We will return the notes in a week's time (post adventure) - along with her spellbook. Or she can come back later to get it.

That gives them the best chance of survival and keeps them out of our hair. It also gives the wizardess the hope to retrieve her spellbook and notes - which will make her more willing to accept - even if it's a less than ideal situation for her.

I know. But Torhak doesn't He was up front and away from the group most of the time. And I (the player) thought it was only visible in the fight. And even then, why would we all be Bhaalites if one of us is?

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I know. But Torhak doesn't He was up front and away from the group most of the time. And I (the player) thought it was only visible in the fight. And even then, why would we all be Bhaalites if one of us is?

Did you not take a short rest with us?? It happened right after our short rest.

Regarding our situation:

She’s going to continue to rebuff our attempts to negotiate with her. I think we have all the info we are going to get from her. Maybe some details on what she just mentioned (directions etc) We should decided what we want to do:

- She wants to stay in the cave for 24 hours

- @Kobold Stew and @MetaVoid want to tie her up where we know she’ll be abused or murdered. But possibly not if we can pay the leader

- I want to hire 5 Kobolds food (and maybe some money) to escort them a day(or two) away. But they could possibly escape.

- Shamal is casting a ritual so he isn’t there.

Our goal is to get them out of our hair. If we could trust them to leave or sit quiet, that would be ideal but we don’t. Although, I see her point: we made a deal with the kobolds who were working with the cultists, why can we not make a deal with her?

 

[MetaVoid]

Where we THINK they MIGHT be murdered. No guarantees, they (the kobolds) negotiated with us. As for abused...who cares? They abused kobolds...

And besides, you did your best, you tried to keep them both alive and out of your hair, it's not your fault that kobolds killed them..

We cannot make a deal with her because kobolds cannot free themselves and we can only benefit them. She, on the other hand, is highly intelligent (wizard), highly motivated (knowledge and her spellbook)...why would she trust us when she gains more (trust, influence, good-will) if she betrays us

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Where we THINK they MIGHT be murdered. No guarantees, they (the kobolds) negotiated with us. As for abused...who cares? They abused kobolds...

And besides, you did your best, you tried to keep them both alive and out of your hair, it's not your fault that kobolds killed them..

We cannot make a deal with her because kobolds cannot free themselves and we can only benefit them. She, on the other hand, is highly intelligent (wizard), highly motivated (knowledge and her spellbook)...why would she trust us when she gains more (trust, influence, good-will) if she betrays us

It seems a bit cold to put her in the hands of people that might murder them. And we have no evidence she treated the kobolds poorly. The kobold leader treats his own subjects poorly and the kobolds are being ordered by the cult to help her dig the green rocks. It’s the cult that is pulling all the strings right now.

As for abused, Merrick cares.

We could just as easily get captured by the cult and put in the custody of the kobolds. Who, I’m sure, would be happy to torture us for our failure. They almost tried to murder us when they thought we’d killed their dragon. If we fail to free them from the cult, I’m pretty sure they won’t be forgiving. That’s the position we are putting Valendra in.

We didn’t make a truce with the kobolds because they are nice, we made a truce because it would be easier than fighting them.

As for the MIGHT part, Fitz already pointed out that they WILL torture or kill Valenda and the merc unless we can somehow pay them not to. My original idea to get the kobolds to watch them was under the wrong assumption that the prisoners would be safe.

That said, it’s two to one so if that’s what you guys want to do, I think we should try to move the story along.