D&D 5E 5e and Epic Level for aspiring Deities and Demigods

[pemerton]

I've run high level (25+ ) Rolemaster, with the same sorts of themes as upper-paragon/low-epic 4e - gods, demons, the fate of the cosmos, etc. My 4e game is currently at 17th level and I'm looking forward to epic (and also have my eye on the maths). The players are looking at some interesting epic destinies.

On strongholds: I don't mind them in principle but want high-level play to be possible without having to pay much mechanical attention to them. In my last Rolemaster campaign, the main fighter PC ended up lord of a former pirate town. This came into play in terms of framing his social encounters with other rulers, godlings, etc, but I have no interest in playing or refereeing a domain management game. So I would like that to be optional.

On epic destinies and destiny quests: I like the idea that players can choose a PC build element that further embeds their PC in the cosmology in mechanical as well as story terms. I don't object to advice on how to run quests for access to such elements, but would like them to be balanced so that they can be awarded automatically (4e-style) without destabilising the game.

 

[Li Shenron]

I think Epic levels should somehow change how the game works, otherwise they are just higher levels with inflated numbers, thus why even calling them differently? Even more so if the PCs become immortal, demi-gods or even full-gods beings.

Even if we consider only extremely high levels with incredible spells and abilities, IMHO previous editions rarely succeeded at capturing a truly epic feel, because they always focused on the mechanics of being epic (how spellcasting changes, how combat changes) and never really significantly explored the social and environmental consequences of being that much over-the-world powerul.

 

[pemerton]

I think Epic levels should somehow change how the game works, otherwise they are just higher levels with inflated numbers, thus why even calling them differently? Even more so if the PCs become immortal, demi-gods or even full-gods beings.

If by "the game" you mean "the fiction", then I agree.

If by "the game" you mean "the mechanics", then I don't agree. I don't object to new mechanical modules (eg domain or worshipper management systems) that people can jack on if they want to. But I don't want to have to change systems to run an epic campaign.

This is to some extent a matter of degree, though. High level 4e has more action denial debuffs, for example, and expects both NPCs/monsters and PCs to deploy various sorts of mechanical solutions. It also has more flight. Rituals become grander in their scope and power (the PCs in my game just spent their first night in the Underdark in a Hallowed Temple, for example - they didn't do that at 1st level). These are all new mechanical elements, corresponding to new aspects of the story, but they don't create markedly new subsystems or techniques of play. They extend what was already going on (eg tactical deployment of powers, tactical movement, rituals as key elements for exploration, etc).