5E: Converting Monsters from White Dwarf Magazine for Fifth Edition

[Cleon]

Okay, updated the Nandie-Ape (Koddoelo) Working Draft with my ideas for the Kerit language.

Pack Tactics. The nandie-ape has advantage on a melee attack roll against a creature if at least one of the koddoelo's allies is within 5 feet of the creature and the ally isn't incapacitated.

How about we rework Pack Tactics to incorporate the Nandie's "summoning chatter" ability.

Call to Arms. A nandie-ape can use its bonus action to make a chattering call. This gives it advantage on melee attack rolls against a creature if at least one of the nandie-ape's allies is within 5 feet of the creature and the ally isn't incapacitated.

In addition, any members of the nandie-ape's colony within earshot of Call to Arms (normally 300 feet) will come to aid the nandie-ape. A nandie-bear, if present, always turns up after all the nandie-apes within range have arrived.

 

[Cleon]

Rock Bounding. A nandie-ape can leap from rock to rock, it moves across rocky terrain at its climb speed and ignores difficult terrain caused by boulders.

Okay, I think this needs a bit of expansion.

In Halls of of Tizun Thane the Nandies occupied a barracks scattered with fallen roof timbers, not a boulder in sight!

Hmm…

Bounding. A nandie-ape can make casual leaps of up to 10 feet as free actions when it moves. If a nandie-ape crosses broken terrain with obstacles it can climb or leap onto (boulders, tree limbs, roof beams, cage bars, et cetera), it moves at its climb speed and ignores difficult terrain caused by the obstacles.

I think that's better.

Will update my Nandie-Ape (Koddoelo) Working Draft.

 

[Casimir Liber]

They look good (and adopted) - just call the language "Kerit" or add in brackets "(complex array of chatters)" or something?

 

[Cleon]

They look good (and adopted) - just call the language "Kerit" or add in brackets "(complex array of chatters)" or something?

I used "Kerit (spoken & sign language)" in the current Nandie-Ape (Koddoelo) Working Draft.

Presumably the Nandie-Bear while have "Kerit (only communicates in sign-language but understands spoken form)" or the like.

Just put "Call to Arms" in the Nandie-Ape working draft too.

I'm wondering about putting the Boss Nandie-Ape in the same Working Draft post as the regular variety, since there's little to distinguish it apart from some larger numbers and perhaps a bigger dice for its attack damage.

It doesn't have extra special abilities like the Pine Kindred Thane, for example.

Regardless, I think we've finished with the stats for the regular Nandie-Ape haven't we? It's just the Description to do.

 

[Cleon]

I'm wondering about putting the Boss Nandie-Ape in the same Working Draft post as the regular variety, since there's little to distinguish it apart from some larger numbers and perhaps a bigger dice for its attack damage.

Upon reflection, it'd be easier to compare them if I do the Boss Nandie's Working Draft as as a separate post…

 

[Cleon]

Nandie-Ape (Koddoelo), Boss
Medium beast, chaotic neutral
Armor Class 13 (natural armor)
Hit Points 27 (5d8+5)
Speed 20 ft., climb 30 ft.

STR​	DEX​	CON​	INT​	WIS​	CHA​
14 (+2)​	15 (+2)​	13 (+1)​	6 (–2)​	12 (+1)​	9 (–1)​

Saving Throws Dex +4
Skills Athletics +6, Perception +3
Senses passive Perception 13
Languages Kerit (spoken & sign language)
Challenge 1 (200 XP) Proficiency Bonus +2

Bounding. A nandie-ape can make casual leaps of up to 10 feet as free actions when it moves. If a nandie-ape crosses broken terrain with obstacles it can climb or leap onto (boulders, tree limbs, roof beams, cage bars, et cetera), it moves at its climb speed and ignores difficult terrain caused by the obstacles.

Call to Arms. A nandie-ape boss can use its bonus action to make screeching calls. This gives it advantage on melee attack rolls against a creature if at least one of the nandie-ape's allies is within 5 feet of the creature and the ally isn't incapacitated.
 In addition, any members of the boss's colony within earshot of Call to Arms (about 300 feet) will come to aid the nandie-ape boss. (See Call to Arms in the Nandie-Ape (Koddoelo) for details).


Actions

Multiattack. The boss nandie-ape makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its claws.

Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d6 + 2) piercing damage.

Claws. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (2d4 + 2) slashing damage.

Rock. Ranged Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, range 25/50 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d6 + 2) bludgeoning damage.

Description

See the Nandie-Ape (Koddoelo).

(Originally named Nandie; first appeared in White Dwarf Magazine #18 (Apr/May 1980) as part of "The Halls of Tizun Thane" by Albie Fiore.)

 

[Cleon]

Okay, here's what we've got so far:

Compared to a regular Nandie, the head Nandies of a colony in Halls of Tizun Thane had triple the Hit Dice (3D8 vs 1D8) and did more damage (1d4/1d4/1d6 claw/claw/bite vs 1d2/1d2/1d3).

This version has 250% hit points rather than 300% like the original. (5d8 vs 2d8).

Maybe bump the Constitution up to give it +1 per die? That'd be pretty triple the base Nandie-Ape's 9 hit points:

Hit Points 27 (5d8+5)​

CON 13 (+1)​

For the attacks, I'm thinking the "to hit" might benefit from adding its Proficiency Bonus like the 5E Ape (which seems a good model for the Boss and has a +3 Str bonus and +5 to hit).

Melee attack total average damage is up by 2 points (1d4+1d6+4 vs 1d4+1d6+2) or 10 vs 8, which is a 25% increase.

The original monster has 8.5 vs 5 (2d4+1d6 vs 2d2+1d3) or a 70% increase.

That suggest we need to give the damage a boost!

If we want to give them 170% or so of the regular Nandie-Ape's damage, that suggests the boss needs a total average damage of 13.5 or so. We could do that by giving the boss two claw attacks when multiattacking:

Multiattack. The boss nandie-ape makes three attacks: one with its bite and two with its claws.​

​

Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d4 + 2) piercing damage.​

​

Claws. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d6 + 2) slashing damage.​

​

Rock. Ranged Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, range 25/50 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d6 + 2) bludgeoning damage.​

That seems just a tad too high in melee at 81.25% above the regular Nandie, being 14.5 vs 8 (2d4+1d6+6 vs 1d4+1d6+2).

However, I'd rather keep the two attacks and give it bigger and/or more dice:

Multiattack. The boss nandie-ape makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its claws.​

​

Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d6 + 2) piercing damage.​

​

Claws. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (2d4 + 2) slashing damage.​

​

Rock. Ranged Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, range 25/50 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d6 + 2) bludgeoning damage.​

That's 56.25% above the regular Nandie, at 12.5 vs 8 (2d4+1d6+4 vs 1d4+1d6+2).

It's lower than a 70% would give, but the Nandie boss has more HP than the 5E Ape (27 vs 19), a point better AC and Advantage on attacks when using Call to Arms.

Hmm… that's starting to look like a Challenge 1 monster to me. Those numbers aren't far off a Dire Wolf, whose Pack Tactics give it a similar Advantage-on-Attacks ability.

If we do go for the next rung up the Challenge ladder, I suggest giving them DEX 17 (+3) and increasing the attacks to "+5 to hit" like the Ape and Dire Wolf.

What do you think?

 

[Cleon]

For the attacks, I'm thinking the "to hit" might benefit from adding its Proficiency Bonus like the 5E Ape (which seems a good model for the Boss and has a +3 Str bonus and +5 to hit).

Come to think of it, that ought to apply to the regular Nandies as well. A Wolf has +4 to hit, not just the +2 of its DEX bonus, and is also a Challenge 1/4 Pack Attacker like a Nandie-Ape.

So should we give the Nandie-Apes +4 to hit?

 

[Casimir Liber]

re nandie-ape, I think +4 to hit is fine - piddly damage anyway.

re nandie-ape boss, should we just make it 6HD so both are exactly double their original HD? agree with CR 1 then and second attack option (2 attacks and bigger dice) - yeah more dextrous is ok. Initially dubious but I guess gotta think about how they become leaders of the pack so to speak.

 

[Cleon]

re nandie-ape, I think +4 to hit is fine - piddly damage anyway.

Agreed.

Updating the Nandie-Ape (Koddoelo) Working Draft with +4 to hit.

re nandie-ape boss, should we just make it 6HD so both are exactly double their original HD? agree with CR 1 then and second attack option (2 attacks and bigger dice) - yeah more dextrous is ok. Initially dubious but I guess gotta think about how they become leaders of the pack so to speak.

Doesn't make that much of a difference in 5E. 6d8 and 5d8+5 will give them the same 27 hit points.

It depends whether we want to give them a better Con save or not.

Upon reflection, I'm leaning towards keeping the Dexterity the same as regular Nandie-Apes, mainly since increasing it a notch would require us increasing the AC.

I'll update the Nandie-Ape Boss Working Draft now we've got the foundations settled.