5E: Converting Monsters from White Dwarf Magazine for Fifth Edition

ilgatto

How inconvenient
Interesting concept. To me, the original description seems to imply that they generally don't speak - just control animals, so happy to leave with just terran.

anyway...now here
By the by: What's your policy on mentioning the origins of a monster? Do you limit this to their first appearance in some (A)D&D format or would you also include any other sources they may be derived from?

For example: Isn't the chthon based on Piers Anthony's novel Chthon? (isfdb)
 

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Casimir Liber

Adventurer
In the interests of getting things started as I am interested in the idea (mutable strength of its foes), but pondering what level this is most fun to play at. I began with a clay golem statblock - all numbers are up for change
 

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Casimir Liber

Adventurer
The idea is that the strength bonus (and then retconning the strength backwards) is that of the combined bonuses of those fighting it. Hence a sqaarg fighting 2 STR 18 opponents (+4 each) would have +8 STR bonus.
 

ilgatto

How inconvenient
Sorry to barge in again, but I noticed a mistake in the chthon text.

This face resemble an old man with skin split by fissures, baleful black eyes, and a large jagged-edged mouth.

"resemble" > "resembles"

Also: Does the face resemble an "old man" or the "face of an old man"?
 

Casimir Liber

Adventurer
By the by: What's your policy on mentioning the origins of a monster? Do you limit this to their first appearance in some (A)D&D format or would you also include any other sources they may be derived from?

For example: Isn't the chthon based on Piers Anthony's novel Chthon? (isfdb)
Wow I had never known that - reading the precis, the WD monster appears to have been changed considerably though.
 

Cleon

Legend
By the by: What's your policy on mentioning the origins of a monster? Do you limit this to their first appearance in some (A)D&D format or would you also include any other sources they may be derived from?

We use the earliest D&D publication of the monster.

For example: Isn't the chthon based on Piers Anthony's novel Chthon? (isfdb)

Possibly?

There are some parallels between the Chthons, particularly that both can control creatures, but even if the White Dwarf version was "inspired" by the novel the two are quite different in their details.

The Piers Anthony's version is a planet-sized entity that controls human(oid) beings and it only hates people because it's only been exposed to evil human criminals exiled to mine precious stones from the caves that form its "body" which has given it a low opinion of the species. Oh, and it controlled people through some kind of parasitic infection taking over their bodies. That's not much like the One Eye Canyon version.

Without a specific reference, there's always a possibility that they both just happen to use a name derived from chthonic on account of them being earth elemental type creatures.
 

Cleon

Legend
Sorry to barge in again, but I noticed a mistake in the chthon text.



"resemble" > "resembles"

Also: Does the face resemble an "old man" or the "face of an old man"?

Gah, yes I'd better fix that.

Was switching around the wording of the first couple of sentences to find one I liked and released it before it was finished.

Will change it to "Its face resembles an old man's,".

Updated the Chthon.
 

Cleon

Legend
In the interests of getting things started as I am interested in the idea (mutable strength of its foes), but pondering what level this is most fun to play at. I began with a clay golem statblock - all numbers are up for change

Okay, to begin with a Gray Sqaarg does not have immunity to weapons like a clay golem. Drop that immunity and its Challenge will drop considerably.

The creature should have some kind of grapple attack for restraining opponents without injuring them. That's its preferred means of combat. Gray Sqaargs only use lethal force as a last ditch option.

The "Strength of its Foes" is tricky to adjudicate. Will have to think about it.

A major problem is the original "The sqaarg always fights with a strength’ equal to the combined strength points of those fighting it" and "The monster can have a maximum strength of 40" simply makes no sense in D&D, even in first edition, since a creature's Strength score is not a linear quantity and the maximum strength possible in the rules is 25.

If you interpret it as being a Sqaarg has a maximum strength equal to four men (since 40 is four times the average ability score of 10), that's roughly equivalent to a score of Strength 18/00 or possibly 19 in terms of lifting capacity. An ordinary 1E AD&D human with Strength 10 can stagger around with 105+ pounds when heavily encumbered, so a creature four times stronger should be able to lift 315+ pounds more than that. The 1E Player's Handbook Strength table says Strength 18/00 has a weight allowance +300 pounds higher than an ordinary human (well +3,000 coins to be precise, or "gold pieces" if you want to be literal, with a "coin" being a tenth of a pound).

That suggests a "40 points of Strength" Sqaarg might be at the maximum limit of human strength rather than an impossibly powerful titan stronger than the mightiest god.

I'm wondering if a Sqaarg doesn't actually draw STR from its opponents but just automatically "pulls its punches" and only uses its full Strength when assaulted by multiple opponents.

The main thing is I'd like to keep it simple, and that'd be difficult if the Strength keeps on changing. For a start, the Sqaarg's to hit and damage numbers would change depending on how many opponents it is fighting and what their strength scores are!

It'd be easier to just stat it up with a single STR score set to its maximum strength, whatever we decide that to be.

Hmm, I suppose we could make it so its default Grapple attack has a DC that varies with the number/STR of opponents but have a set STR for when it's trying to kill people?
 

ilgatto

How inconvenient
We use the earliest D&D publication of the monster.

Understood.

Possibly?

There are some parallels between the Chthons, particularly that both can control creatures, but even if the White Dwarf version was "inspired" by the novel the two are quite different in their details.

The Piers Anthony's version is a planet-sized entity that controls human(oid) beings and it only hates people because it's only been exposed to evil human criminals exiled to mine precious stones from the caves that form its "body" which has given it a low opinion of the species. Oh, and it controlled people through some kind of parasitic infection taking over their bodies. That's not much like the One Eye Canyon version.

Without a specific reference, there's always a possibility that they both just happen to use a name derived from chthonic on account of them being earth elemental type creatures.

Ah, OK, I stand corrected. I haven't actually read the book and must have picked up the notion from someplace I can't remember.
 

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