D&D 5E 5th Edition -- Help Me Break the Game!

[omniknight]

How is the AC at level 2 at 23 / 25 at level 3 or 4 lasting more than one turn w/o concentration? Also, not sure how you are getting con ST proficiency?

AC 23/25 doesn't last more than a turn with the Shield spell. But it is only cast when absolutely needed as a reaction to being successfully hit, so it is hardly ever a wasted cast like other AC boosters might be. And with a normal 20 AC while standing in the back spell sniping, it is not often needed anyway. It is a tool for emergencies, like if an ogre manages to get to you and successfully two-handed smashes you with its club, then you cast Shield to hopefully deflect it. IMO the infrequency at which it is needed makes it so that it is always available, giving you an "effective" 20-25 AC.

Resilient gives ST proficiency on the stat you select. For better or worse, I think it is going to become commonly accepted that everyone eventually takes this feat to boost one of the major saving throws (DEX/CON/WIS). I don't have the official PHB yet but I think the classes were designed such that no one class got two of the major three saving throw proficiencies. Resilient bumps you up to two of them, so you'll always have a weak one.

The biggest weakness is that your INT is going to be really low; your spells will be very easy to save against. (Especially since you are using your level 4 feat on +1/+1, and level 8 on Tough). 15 INT from level 1-3 will be tough to contribute with, as will 16 INT until level 12. You will be hard to bring down, but not as sure as to your effectiveness on spellcasting for a while.

I think you are making a bigger deal of +2 vs +3, +3 vs +4, or +4 vs +5 for the INT modifier than it actually is. Yeah, for a while my spell attack and spell save DC will be 1 lower than a Wizard that gets 16/17 INT from character creation. So what? That doesn't mean my spell save DC is comparatively in the dumpster. Remember the proficiency modifier is still equal since it is based on character level. I'll have 20 INT by level 13 or 17 anyway. That is all a non-factor for building a level 20 character from the get-go, too.

 

[MarkChevallier]

2 level dip into Tempest Cleric; rest of your levels as an Evoker (although you could be any Wizard or Sorcerer, really). This gives you 1 maximised lightning or thunder spell per short rest, plus some healing flexibility/armour etc. At level 7 you can cast a 54 point lightning bolt; at 13th level an 85 point chain lightning. If better lightning/thunder spells come along, or even better, some kind of elemental substitution, the potential for mischief grows. Not super overpowered, but certainly an interesting and possibly roleplaying friendly combo.

EDIT: Or... at 16th level, use Polymorph to turn into an adult blue dragon. You can still use your channel divinity as the tempest version doesn't require a holy symbol. Do 120 damage with lightning breath.

 

[Obryn]

Yeah, the more I learn about it, the more convinced I am that "necromancer with a hundred archer skeletons" is the most surefire way to break the game. Both from a balance perspective (bounded accuracy + action economy + tons of weak monsters) and from a gameplay perspective ("sit tight, I only have 75 more skeletons to go." Also, "okay, you did 17 damage to Skeleton 17, and 8 to skeletons 14, 22, 58, & 80...")

 

[Crothian]

Yeah, the more I learn about it, the more convinced I am that "necromancer with a hundred archer skeletons" is the most surefire way to break the game. Both from a balance perspective (bounded accuracy + action economy + tons of weak monsters) and from a gameplay perspective ("sit tight, I only have 75 more skeletons to go." Also, "okay, you did 17 damage to Skeleton 17, and 8 to skeletons 14, 22, 58, & 80...")

That might be the first character concept that would be required to use a computer and dice roller at the table. I might also have that game use minis and force the players to provide minis for their own character and any creatures they will be using.

 

[omniknight]

2 level dip into Tempest Cleric; rest of your levels as an Evoker (although you could be any Wizard or Sorcerer, really). This gives you 1 maximised lightning or thunder spell per short rest, plus some healing flexibility/armour etc. At level 7 you can cast a 54 point lightning bolt; at 13th level an 85 point chain lightning. If better lightning/thunder spells come along, or even better, some kind of elemental substitution, the potential for mischief grows. Not super overpowered, but certainly an interesting and possibly roleplaying friendly combo.

EDIT: Or... at 16th level, use Polymorph to turn into an adult blue dragon. You can still use your channel divinity as the tempest version doesn't require a holy symbol. Do 120 damage with lightning breath.

That's not a bad idea, I've considered it. However with Cleric 2 now the Wizard features are delayed by two levels, and you lose one ASI. I think I strong case could be made for doing this for as part of making a level 10-20 character from the get-go, but I don't think I'd want to level it from 1-20.

 

[omniknight]

Yeah, the more I learn about it, the more convinced I am that "necromancer with a hundred archer skeletons" is the most surefire way to break the game. Both from a balance perspective (bounded accuracy + action economy + tons of weak monsters) and from a gameplay perspective ("sit tight, I only have 75 more skeletons to go." Also, "okay, you did 17 damage to Skeleton 17, and 8 to skeletons 14, 22, 58, & 80...")

Per the RAW, yeah, that would break the game. It'd be interesting as a level 20 one-shot. However, I would not want to play a legitimate long term campaign with that character concept levels 1-20, and I know my friends wouldn't want to play beside it. Thanks but no thanks.

 

[GrumpyGamer]

AC 23/25 doesn't last more than a turn with the Shield spell. But it is only cast when absolutely needed as a reaction to being successfully hit, so it is hardly ever a wasted cast like other AC boosters might be. And with a normal 20 AC while standing in the back spell sniping, it is not often needed anyway. It is a tool for emergencies, like if an ogre manages to get to you and successfully two-handed smashes you with its club, then you cast Shield to hopefully deflect it. IMO the infrequency at which it is needed makes it so that it is always available, giving you an "effective" 20-25 AC.

Resilient gives ST proficiency on the stat you select. For better or worse, I think it is going to become commonly accepted that everyone eventually takes this feat to boost one of the major saving throws (DEX/CON/WIS). I don't have the official PHB yet but I think the classes were designed such that no one class got two of the major three saving throw proficiencies. Resilient bumps you up to two of them, so you'll always have a weak one.



I think you are making a bigger deal of +2 vs +3, +3 vs +4, or +4 vs +5 for the INT modifier than it actually is. Yeah, for a while my spell attack and spell save DC will be 1 lower than a Wizard that gets 16/17 INT from character creation. So what? That doesn't mean my spell save DC is comparatively in the dumpster. Remember the proficiency modifier is still equal since it is based on character level. I'll have 20 INT by level 13 or 17 anyway. That is all a non-factor for building a level 20 character from the get-go, too.

You are going to have to sketch this out a bit more, because it looks like you are describing a character with too many stat points and/or taking too many stat increases/feats.

If you dip 1 into Cleric and then go Wizard you get a stat increase/feat at:
5th
9th
13th
17th
20th

As far as I can tell you are talking about having three feats, a Str of 15, a Con of 20 and an Int of 20.

Edit: changed Str to 15 for plate from 13.

 

[omniknight]

You are going to have to sketch this out a bit more, because it looks like you are describing a character with too many stat points and/or taking too many stat increases/feats.

As far as I can tell you are talking about having three feats, a Str of 13, a Con of 20 and an Int of 20.

Nope. 8 STR, Dwarf negates Heavy Armor penalty. 20 INT probably at level 13, but maybe delayed until 17. 18 CON plus CON ST at 13 or 17. Tough or 20 CON at level 20, or maybe neither if extra HP is unnecessary at that point.

Feel free to read through my posts starting a few pages back from here. You'll see it is legitimate.

 

[GrumpyGamer]

Nope. 8 STR, Dwarf negates Heavy Armor penalty. 20 INT probably at level 13, but maybe delayed until 17. 18 CON plus CON ST at 13 or 17. Tough or 20 CON at level 20, or maybe neither if extra HP is unnecessary at that point.

Feel free to read through my posts starting a few pages back from here. You'll see it is legitimate.

As far as I can tell from looking at the basic rules, which should be the same as the PHB they do not, but I will check my PHB later tonight to confirm. As far as I know if you want Plate you need to take the feat for heavy armor, and you need to have Str 15 to wear it.

I did read back through your posts and could not put this together. Someone mentioned AC 18 with a chain shirt upgraded to 20 with half plate but those are a moderate Dex build (Dex 14).

 

[omniknight]

As far as I can tell from looking at the basic rules, which should be the same as the PHB they do not, but I will check my PHB later tonight to confirm. As far as I know if you want Plate you need to take the feat for heavy armor, and you need to have Str 15 to wear it.

I did read back through your posts and could not put this together. Someone mentioned AC 20 with a chain shirt but that is a dex build.

Cleric 1 / Wizard 19. The level 1 dip into Cleric and Life Domain gives you Heavy Armor proficiency. Dwarf negates the heavy armor speed penalty for having less than 13/15 STR. Taking the HA feat is unnecessary.