D&D (2024) A change for Archery Fighting style.

[Horwath]

Right now archery is still strongest fighting style from the list.

Yet, still not worth a full feat, but would be contender for strongest "half feat" if joined with +1 ASI.

And since bounded accuracy is in play. that +2 attack should go in 1D&D.


Suggestion:
Fighting style: Archery
you add your proficiency bonus to damage with ranged weapons.

this would put it in line with other fighting styles, will not break BA, and then styles could be half feats to take when we remove this clear outliner i power.

 

[Olrox17]

I agree that archery style is far too strong for a combat style, but +prof to damage would also be an outlier at medium and high levels. If you want archery style to be a damage bonus, duelist style (a fixed +2 damage) should be what we compare it to.

 

[Horwath]

I agree that archery style is far too strong for a combat style, but +prof to damage would also be an outlier at medium and high levels. If you want archery style to be a damage bonus, duelist style (a fixed +2 damage) should be what we compare it to.

duelist is also hardly worth a half-feat. It's bad.
maybe it also needs +prof bonus to damage.


prof bonus to damage scales as damage of weapon scales, higher dex, more +X bonuses, more and better attack riders.

+2 attack never loses value over levels, +2 damage quickly becomes trivial bonus compared to rest of damage.

 

[Olrox17]

duelist is also hardly worth a half-feat. It's bad.
maybe it also needs +prof bonus to damage.


prof bonus to damage scales as damage of weapon scales, higher dex, more +X bonuses, more and better attack riders.

+2 attack never loses value over levels, +2 damage quickly becomes trivial bonus compared to rest of damage.

Yes, all fighting styles (except archery) are bad compared to feats, but I think that's fully intentional. If we want fighting styles to somewhat compete with feats, then we should heavily modify all of them.

 

[tetrasodium]

Yes, all fighting styles (except archery) are bad compared to feats, but I think that's fully intentional. If we want fighting styles to somewhat compete with feats, then we should heavily modify all of them.

I think that the warrior group will have default access to a certain number of fighting styles as class features like the ranger gets at level 2. With that said I think Archery fighting stye's "you gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls made with ranged weapons" is particularly awful absent meaningful shooting into melee penalties like d&d had in the past. The fact that sharpshooter/crossbow expert nullify cover and double the effective battlemat spanning "short" range on top of removing the penalty for shooting while in melee for relevant ranged weapons makes the existing shooting into melee rules that rely on cover entirely unsuitable.

If ranged weapons had their damage die dropped to d4/d6 rather than melee equivalent d8/d10 but at 60-150+ feet it would be appropriate & reasonable to change archery FS to +2 damage or maybe even prof bonus to damage even without meaningful firing into melee rules. At the d8/d10 as 2014 has for shortbow crossbow & longbow I'm not sure it's suitable. The 5.5/6e ranged weapons need to be tuned against melee with more gamist concerns than 2014 5e does.

 

[Horwath]

Yes, all fighting styles (except archery) are bad compared to feats, but I think that's fully intentional. If we want fighting styles to somewhat compete with feats, then we should heavily modify all of them.

they should be equal to half feats.

Archery: +prof bonus to damage

Great weapon style: +prof bonus to damage, double it on a critical hit

Dueling: +prof bonus to damage on 1Handed melee weapons if you only wield one.

TWF style: ability bonus to off hand damage.

Defense: +1 AC and damage reduction 1 vs all attacks while wearing armor you are proficient with. DR 1 is a small boost so it does not compete with Heavy armor mastery.

Thrown weapon style:
Increase damage die by one step when throwing weapons.
All thrown weapons for you have 60/120ft range.
You can throw any 1Handed melee weapon without thrown trait at range 30/60ft with damage die reduced by one step from it's base damage.

etc...

 

[Horwath]

I think that the warrior group will have default access to a certain number of fighting styles as class features like the ranger gets at level 2. With that said I think Archery fighting stye's "you gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls made with ranged weapons" is particularly awful absent meaningful shooting into melee penalties like d&d had in the past. The fact that sharpshooter/crossbow expert nullify cover and double the effective battlemat spanning "short" range on top of removing the penalty for shooting while in melee for relevant ranged weapons makes the existing shooting into melee rules that rely on cover entirely unsuitable.

If ranged weapons had their damage die dropped to d4/d6 rather than melee equivalent d8/d10 but at 60-150+ feet it would be appropriate & reasonable to change archery FS to +2 damage or maybe even prof bonus to damage even without meaningful firing into melee rules. At the d8/d10 as 2014 has for shortbow crossbow & longbow I'm not sure it's suitable. The 5.5/6e ranged weapons need to be tuned against melee with more gamist concerns than 2014 5e does.

I would rather buff melee STR weapon than reduce ranged/finesse ones.

If I never see d4 die again it will be too soon.

 

[Yaarel]

The level 0 Background feats are about a half-feat.

Generally, the level 4 feats are a half-feat with an Ability Score +1. But there are some full feats.

Maybe, the level 8 feats will be worth 1½ feats.

level 12

level 16

The level 20 boons should be worth something spectacular and gamechaning. In the DMs guide, there are examples of great boons. And remarkably subpar ones. In the playtest too. It is possible to seriate them from best to worst, to get a ballpark feel for the kinds of things that a boon should do. But I havent assessed its design space precisely yet.



Where a "standard" 2014 feat is worth about 8 points, the feat level might be worth something like:

Level of Feat: Standard Points
0: 4 points (½ feat)
4: 8 points (1 feat)
8: 12 points
12: 16 points (2 feats)
16: 20 points
20: 24 points (3 feats ≈ 1 boon)



Note. In this context, the Fighting Styles should be worth a half-feat, especially when a character can choose one for the level 0 feat choice.

 

[rules.mechanic]

If I never see d4 die again it will be too soon.

I got a bunch of these and rolling d4s has got a lot better...

 

[Shiroiken]

Not taking the fact that they're feats into consideration, I always felt Archery should reduce cover penalty by 2. Giving +2 to hit seems to go against Bounded Accuracy.