A quick thought about Sorcerers and Quicken.

[Humanophile]

While reading through UA, the commentary on Rapid Summoning jumped out at me; it said that the ability allowed summon spells to be quickened, but Quicken Spell <i>already</i> allows full-round spells to be quickened. Just not anything faster.

But that made me wonder; since D&D seems to allow you to set "order of operation" things in any way that's most convenient to you (such as chosing to grab a feat before the class to gain a PRC, or after to get a skill-prerequisite feat), could not a sorcerer "order of operation" a standard-action spell to allow it to be quickened? (Okay, the text of the feat itself disallows this, but based on spurious reasoning.) What would prevent him from saying that it's a standard action spell, metamagic'd up to a full-round action (faster than a 1-round spell, but we'll call them the same), and then quickening it down to a free?

Again, the feat specificall notes "Special: This feat can’t be applied to any spell cast spontaneously (including sorcerer spells, bard spells, and cleric or druid spells cast spontaneously), since applying a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell automatically increases the casting time to a full-round action.", but if what I say above is true, that completely short-circuits the logic of the special, re-opening some options.

 

[hong]

But that made me wonder; since D&D seems to allow you to set "order of operation" things in any way that's most convenient to you (such as chosing to grab a feat before the class to gain a PRC, or after to get a skill-prerequisite feat),

No.

could not a sorcerer "order of operation" a standard-action spell to allow it to be quickened? (Okay, the text of the feat itself disallows this, but based on spurious reasoning.)

No.

What would prevent him from saying that it's a standard action spell, metamagic'd up to a full-round action (faster than a 1-round spell, but we'll call them the same), and then quickening it down to a free?

The fact that the text of the feat specifically disallows this.

That said, I allow sorcs to get the benefit of quickened spells IMC, and haven't noticed any major problems. In fact, without this, they'd probably be overshadowed by the tanks.

 

[Pax]

While reading through UA, the commentary on Rapid Summoning jumped out at me; it said that the ability allowed summon spells to be quickened, but Quicken Spell <i>already</i> allows full-round spells to be quickened. Just not anything faster.

Yes, but Summon Monster does not have a full-round casting time - it has a 1 round casting time. Full-round casting times are completed fully within a single character's "turn" to act; a Sorceror castignan Empowered Fireball has a "full round" casting time, and may only make a 5' step in thats ame roiund - but the fireball resolves immediately, on that sorceror's current turn.

OTOH, a wizard casting Summon Monster V has a castign time of "1 round". He, too, spends a full-round action to cast his spell, and can only make a 5' step on that round. But - and here's the key differene! - the wizard's spell does not resolve until the wizard's NEXT action.

With that said, I utterly loathe and despise the "no quickened spells" rule for spontaneous casters, and plan to do away with it entirely IMC.