A Tournament of Cosmic Propotions! (Immortal's Handbook Rules)

Belzamus

First Post
Also, Betrayor, if you end up statting Raistlin, try to differentiate him from Boccob somehow lest this get boring. It's too bad my Godslayer class is no good for a caster, would be kind of cool to give it to Raistlin after his act of pantheicide.

Oh, and random question, but does this thread take upwards of a minute and a half to load for anyone else? 'tis kind of irritating, everything else loads in a second for me. It might be Enworld in general, I'm not sure.
 

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Neoiceshroom

Banned
Banned
Also, Betrayor, if you end up statting Raistlin, try to differentiate him from Boccob somehow lest this get boring. It's too bad my Godslayer class is no good for a caster, would be kind of cool to give it to Raistlin after his act of pantheicide.

Oh, and random question, but does this thread take upwards of a minute and a half to load for anyone else? 'tis kind of irritating, everything else loads in a second for me. It might be Enworld in general, I'm not sure.

Good point friend. Also don't forget to note the Improved Spell Mastery feat on the first page, as this feat has more or less replaced epic spellcasting, improved spell capacity & AMMC in my world.

By the way, it usually takes about a minute to load up for me as well so it's not just you.
 

Neoiceshroom

Banned
Banned
For those of you who are into Metal I have chosen a theme song for Alabaster.

Slayer- Bloodline

Song is F**kin dope. Checkidout!

Oh and in case Anyone wants to know, Andrew's them song would be Tool - Jambi.

In my head I always imagine Alabaster as sounding just like Tom Araya and Andrew sounds just like Maynard. I'm weird like that.
 

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Betrayor

First Post
Also, Betrayor, if you end up statting Raistlin, try to differentiate him from Boccob somehow lest this get boring. It's too bad my Godslayer class is no good for a caster, would be kind of cool to give it to Raistlin after his act of pantheicide.

Oh, and random question, but does this thread take upwards of a minute and a half to load for anyone else? 'tis kind of irritating, everything else loads in a second for me. It might be Enworld in general, I'm not sure.
I was thinking that instead if statting him as a double portfolio of magic maybe I should stat him as a magic/suffering god....
Since he been sick his entire mortal life and the only people he helped selflessly were the people who were sick,or bullied.....
The problem is that suffering isn't in the list of portfolios from Ascension so I would have to create it myself,I could take the spells from the suffering domain,but I would have to work on the other powers and disadvantages a portofolio gives......


For me the problem is the Enworld in general,it takes almost 30 seconds to load a page......
 

Neoiceshroom

Banned
Banned
I worry he might end up too similar to Boccob, seeing as he's already a greater deity of double Magic.

Boccob isn't double Magic. He's magic & knowledge. Look again.

Oh and Betrayor if you're looking for portfolios for him, making portfolios is easy cheesy. They all follow a certain algorithm, and as for using the spells from the suffering domain, that makes perfect sense.

Oh, check out Bel's Deicide portfolio. Might end up working for him.
 

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Belzamus

First Post
Oh, well, that would make more sense for him, actually... Good point.

Also, I'd assume Blind Guardian's The Soulforged is Raistlin's themesong, seeing as... it's about him. :p

Also again, Neo, I really have a feeling that the mage gods are going to sweep this tournament. I don't *believe* your system does anything to rein in the insane cheese epic spellcasting is capable of, and even non-epic spells like Celerity and Time Stop are going to play havoc with the fighter-types.

And since you changed how Alabaster's Godblight works, it isn't even a defense against them now. When it used to nullify Divine Bonus, at least their caster level, DCs, and spellcraft checks took a hit.

I could be wrong, though, I haven't looked at FeanMerc's system in a long time. But, I just have a feeling we're going to see some ridiculous spells and spell combos in the course of the tournament.

We'll see, though.
 

Betrayor

First Post
So I am gonna start statting him.....
Hoperfully I will have a first draft ready by the end of next weekend....
I would like some clarifications first....
1)What is the target ECL?I see in the first page that the range is 150-239.Does this mean that I can create him as ECL 239?
2)Are we allowerd to trade artifacts for divine abilities?If so what's the rate?
and3)What are the allowed sources for classes and prestige classes?
 

Belzamus

First Post
For his ECL, I'd say stat him how you feel best represents his abilities, then figure out his ECL from there, just keep the upper limit in mind when designing him so you hopefully don't go over it.

And I don't see any reason why you couldn't trade them. Everything is equivalent in the IH. You have 1/3 of your total ECL in equipment, divded by 4 (for 4 artifacts). A Divine ability is 1 ECL, so just calculate it from there. Pretty simple. I use that method all the time.
 

Neoiceshroom

Banned
Banned
Also again, Neo, I really have a feeling that the mage gods are going to sweep this tournament. I don't *believe* your system does anything to rein in the insane cheese epic spellcasting is capable of, and even non-epic spells like Celerity and Time Stop are going to play havoc with the fighter-types.

I've been giving this quite a bit of thought lately and honestly this is part of the reason why I've been redesigning the martial maneuver system. Considering as how the tournament itself is going to be held on Alabaster's plane, he should gain some form of home-field advantage when the tournament is over and the victor challenges him. More than likely certain spells, particularly those involving the daylight or light spells would certainly cease to function in such a realm. As for the rest of the tournament certain spell combinations may also cease to function during the other fights, barring the use of normal anti-magic.

Also, I don't know if you're familiar with a feat from the book of the nine swords called martial study, that essentially allows non-adept classes to learn martial maneuvers. I made an epic version. Technically a 40th level fighter could qualify for this feat with skills/feats ivested properly, including the 9th level maneuver using martial study (the regular version), which fighters can take as a bonus feat iirc.

Epic Martial Study
Similar to normal Martial Study, but more Epic.
Pre-Requisites: Initiator Level 17+, Knowledge (Strategy & Tactics) 24 Ranks, Martial Lore 24 ranks, Able to initiate at least one 9th level maneuver.
Benefit When you take this feat you gain two new maneuvers known and two new maneuvers readied. You may choose a maneuver from any discipline for which you meet the pre-requisites.
Special You can only take this feat a maximum of six times.

This also leads back to my idea of redesigning the entirety of the Feanmerc & IH rules for epic martial maneuvers to work on a very similar system to the way my spells and psionic powers work.

Basically I had the idea of converting each Discipline into a "School" or "Form" in place of the "Seeds" from epic spells and powers. They would use a very similar table of factors and mitigating factors, which would end up determining their final martial lore DC to initiate, and thereby their level, much the same way spellcraft and psicraft checks are used with traditional FeanMerc rules. I'm also considering allowing the individual maneuvers and stances to be used as "seeds" with a martial lore DC equal to their appropriate level.
I did an example of what I'm talking about with the Desert Wind Discpline in the old thread.

Desert Wind Mastery
Pre-requisites At least 6 maneuvers known from the Desert Wind Discipline, at least one of which must be 9th level, Knowledge (Strategy & Tactics) 24 ranks, Martial Lore 24 ranks
Benefit You gain the ability to ready and initiate any 1st-9th level maneuver of the Desert Wind discipline for free as part of any other normal action. Maneuvers initiated this way do not count against your total maneuvers readied for a given encounter. This ability only applies to 1-st-9th level maneuvers of the chosen discipline only. Epic level maneuvers must still be readied and expended as normal. You also gain access to the following Epic Maneuver "Seed" or in this case, call it a "Form" since you have mastered every maneuver in this form, you have mastered the entire discipline.

Desert Wind
Martial Lore DC 30
Initiation Time 1 action
Range (see text) personal
Duration 1 round

Boosts Boosts made with the Desert Wind Form can grant a +1 morale bonus to whichever one of the following the initiator chooses:
[*]Any one Ability Score
[*]Any one Saving Throw
[*]AC
[*]Natural Armor/ Damage Reduction

For each additional +1 to this bonus increase the Martial Lore DC by +4

The Desert Wind Form can also be used to grant energy resistance to fire & dessication damage or two temporary hit points. For each point of energy resistances, or each two points of temporary HP increase the martial lore DC by +4

The Desert Wind Form has a base Martial Lore DC of 33 if it grants a +1 bonus for any type other than morale. For each additional +1 of the bonus increase the Martial Lore DC by +6. Normal rules for inherit bonuses still apply.

Strikes/Counters Strikes and counters made with the Desert Wind discipline can deal either Fire or Dessication damage. Initiators can use Fire and the Arid air of the Desert Winds to affect other areas as well, sometime creating walls or barriers of flame around themselves for protection. Damage dealt with this form starts at 10d6 points of the chosen energy damage and will almost always require the initiator to hit the target with some form of attack, or allow some form of saving throw to avoid or mitigate the damage, usually reflex saves for saving throws.For each additional d6 beyond 10d6 increase the Martial Lore DC by +2. To imbue another creature with the ability to use this energy at it's option or when a particular condition is met increase the Martial Lore DC by +25.

To make a maneuver a "counter" maneuver all you're really doing is just making it a strike that is contingent upon being attacked, to make a strike into a counter maneuver increase the Martial lore DC by +26.

Stances Stances made using the Desert Wind Form can add any of the following at the initiator's choosing:
[*]Fire or Dessication damage to the initiators' melee attacks (Base 1d6 +1 per initiator level)
[*]Resistance to fire or dessication damage 1 point
[*]Surround themselves in a protective veil of flame (base 5 damage per initiator level)
[*]Grant Temporary movement over a certain kind of terrain with no penalty, usually across air or fire

The only problem I'm having with this approach is determining the DC adjustments for the factors and mitigating factors charts and the fact that there are simply so many disciplines given that I allow most of the ones from the Giant in the Playground forums, and a few others into my campaign setting as well.



And since you changed how Alabaster's Godblight works, it isn't even a defense against them now. When it used to nullify Divine Bonus, at least their caster level, DCs, and spellcraft checks took a hit.

I might actually have to agree with you here, but I just didn't like the original ability because it kinda stank of absolution and their wasn't even a saving throw IIRC? Maybe you could pull it up but I don't think I have your original write-up of the class anymore.

I could be wrong, though, I haven't looked at FeanMerc's system in a long time. But, I just have a feeling we're going to see some ridiculous spells and spell combos in the course of the tournament.

We'll see, though.

Again, that's why I'm working with the martial system to at least give the fighter-based characters a fighting chance.
 
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Belzamus

First Post
o_O Your Godblight doesn't allow a save either.

Anyway, it originally took away their divine bonus as well as doing what yours does, i.e. actually weakening his opponents while strengthening himself. Sure, it's a big swing, but keep in mind, Alabaster is not a good sample Godslayer as he has a divinity template in all but name. Without the +60 luck bonus, imagine what his stats would look like. The main idea was to level the playing field between immortals and mortals with the class. I'm honestly not sure it (the class in general) went far enough.

Granted, the only Godslayer in my setting is an Elder One of double Deicide (which would break the rules except for some story-specific mumbo jumbo that isn't important), so I've never actually scene what a *normal* GS looks like.

But, anyway, if it allowed a save, the god would make that save almost every time, I imagine, which is why none of their abilities allowed one. Do keep in mind, in a rather large portion of fights, a Godslayer versus a god will end with the GS pasted in round 1 by a god with Perfect Initiative. GS's don't exactly have good defenses, and they need at least a turn to activate their shut-down abilities.

Moving on.

I honestly don't have much to say on the martial systems, just that I, hypothetically (as I simply don't have the time or motivation to work on serious DnD and IH overhauls lately) would elect to go with something much simpler and more streamlined. The way you're doing it is really complicated and far too open-ended in my opinion.

But, for the context of this tournament, I'll go along with whatever you want. I do find it kind of odd that first you scaled up magic to compete with fighters, then had to scale up fighting again to compete with magic.

And yeah, I get why that happened since we did a fair bit of nerfing to fighters, but, as I've mentioned, I wouldn't have gone with the epic magic system you've designed since it really does seem to push the balance too far in the other direction.

Also, you are familiar with the sort of cheese that can be accomplished through regular epic spellcasting, right? Granted, this is not my area of expertise at all, but I'm pretty sure it's almost trivially easy at this level for a caster like Boccob to stack enough epic spells to turn himself into a High Lord (temporarily or permanently) using the Apotheosis seed just through ritual fortify intelligence cheese.

Which is why I've always preferred just throwing epic spellcasting right out the window -- 9th level spells are already game-changers, if not game-breakers, and auto metamagic keeps them relevant.


Blah, sorry for the long rant. I don't even really have anything to suggest. >_<

I'm just foreseeing a single epic spellcaster entrant rendering every other competitor irrelevant. They really are an out-of-context problem at this stage, if played to the logical extension of what they're capable of within the rules. We're not talking about Boccob blowing up a planet, we're talking about Boccob, in an immeasurably small unit of time, retroactively making himself a High Lord with potentially infinite divine ranks -- at the high end; there's an entire legion of cheese that falls within that spectrum, all of which is possible for him under the current rules.

UNLESS, and this is a big unless, FeanMerc changed the system so that isn't allowed anymore. I haven't checked those rules out in probably 6 years. If that's the case, kindly ignore that enormous wall of text. :p
 

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