A wizard 'fix' I'm considering trying

[Kzach]

I think it would give greater versatility, but turns them into a god? I hardly think so. It isn't as if you are giving them both powers, and since we are typically talking about dailies here, it would be pretty often that the wizard say, uses 'expeditious retreat' and then really really wishes he still had access to featherfall but it is too late, because the quantum state of utility 2 has already collapsed into expeditious retreat and the 'slot' is expended.

But the net effect is that they DO have both powers. Until the daily is expended, they effectively have both powers. And let's face it, once dailies get expended, groups tend to rest to get them back.

 

[Plane Sailing]

And let's face it, once dailies get expended, groups tend to rest to get them back.

not in my game - they continue until their healing surges are getting too low (or run out) but don't stop just because their dailies are used.

Wouldn't it be ironic if, in an attempt to fix the so-called '15 minute workday' the designers actually introduced more people to such a situation

Cheers

 

[Fede]

I didn't understand how your "improved flexibility" houserule works with utility spells of different type (per encounter and daily). If only daily benefit from the "quantum slot", how does spells like jump or shield work?

 

[erf_beto]

Maybe it's just me and the way I used to think about vancian magic, but I think swaping daily spells should be done in a short rest, because you'd need to reference your spellbook and do the preparation, whereas encounter powers could be swapped at the time of casting, because they're more like raw magic power that you channel, like a warlock or sorcerer does (per RAW, you don't even keep encounter powers in your spellbook).

Anyway, if your house rule turns out to be overpowered (wich I think isn't, even though it looks really good), you could make it a class feature that allows the swap just once per day for every 5 levels (2 times at 5th, 3 times at 10th, etc etc).

Another way to add versatility (and that I'm seriously considering) is giving two extra at-will for all wizards: more damage types and controller-y options to choose from. IMO, that will increase versatility, without really overpowering them (that is, until Arcane Power creep comes, anyway).

As for Fireball, bullseye!

 

[Rel]

Unfortunately I've not gotten to see the Wizard in play so I can't comment directly about whether I think Wizards are overpowered. However I don't have any problem with them getting a boost in flexibility. But I do like to introduce interesting choices in exchange for this kind of stuff. So what I'd do is this:

Swapping between Dailies is a Move Action (as suggested by Talon378 above). But the kicker is that while this is happening the Wizard must "wield" the spellbook with both hands.

That means that the Wizard has to either put away or drop whatever other implements he was wielding before. It also means that if he wants to use those implements to cast the spell he just switched to that he has to put the spellbook away or drop it.

To mean that means that the Wizard either has to take an extra round to do this "right" (put stuff away when he's done with it) or else do it quickly and drop stuff on the ground that he later has to recover. Personally I'd be rather worried about dropping my spellbook on the ground if I'm a Wizard.

It might also mean that it's a good time to spend an Action Point.

 

[Henry]

Plane Sailing, you've hit on the Spellbook house rule that I adopted about two sessions into seeing our group's wizard in play. It made the player a bit happier, though he still wound up not liking 4e overall, and in play it really didn't make any difference in his power level.

Actually, you could in my opinion leave expanded spellbook in, and it wouldn't probably make much difference. My reasoning? All spell choices of a given level are roughly equivalent; you're not gaining much power in the versatility offered versus another controller. So it doesn't make a difference if you picked sleep for the day versus acid arrow, except situationally sleep might be marginally better in limited cases. As the premise here is that Wizards NEED a boost, but not one of raw power, a boost of versatility is the only real recourse -- and frankly, it's one of the two largest complaints of the new rules. It's like the sorcerer from 3E; Since you're only allowing a choice of two spells per level/category, it's not like you're allowing them to throw open every wotc book and pick on the fly. Three spells per day? Good, it still isn't going to increase their power, only make them more versatile -- heaven forbid the class historically known for it's versatility should be more versatile than currently.

 

[Kzach]

All spell choices of a given level are roughly equivalent; you're not gaining much power in the versatility offered versus another controller.

Sure, but context matters. Versatility is power. In fact, it was stated by one of the designers before 4e was announced (I think in one of the podcasts), that role definition was a necessity to create balance because too much versatility equalled too much power.

Consider in your example having a player that is operating a wizard under the bog-standard rules and a player who is allowed to choose between two diametrically opposed spells like Acid Arrow (powerful single target spell) and Sleep (powerful multi target spell).

In every combat, the wizard who can choose has a massive advantage over the wizard who can't. What about all the other characters who have been forced to choose between a power that affects multiple targets and one that affects a single target? The choice wizard is suddenly more powerful and versatile than everyone else in the party.

And that's only with one daily slot. By tenth level, a wizard will essentially be able to master any combat situation by focusing their spell choices based on the immediate need.

Plus, the fix doesn't really address the root problem, which is that the wizard isn't fulfilling its role as well as it should. I don't believe the powers of the wizard are weak, and versatility is a power boost unto itself. I do believe the current selections of powers aren't as controller oriented as they should be, however.

 

[evilbob]

All spell choices of a given level are roughly equivalent; you're not gaining much power in the versatility offered versus another controller.

I just could not disagree more with this sentence. I strongly believe that the worst thing about the wizard class is the vast power difference in same-level daily spells. There may not be a big difference power-wise between acid arrow and sleep, but flaming sphere blows them both away. Likewise, Bigby's icy grasp vs. web might be a tossup, but stinking cloud is devastating.

That said, I still agree that versatility seems like a good way to go if you're trying to round the wizard out. Maybe a good middle-ground option is something akin to what has been said above: the feat Expanded Spellbook allows for one additional choice and allows you to swap spells during a short rest. Improved Expanded Spellbook (prereq: former) allows you to swap between any spells during battle as a standard action.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Unfortunately I've not gotten to see the Wizard in play so I can't comment directly about whether I think Wizards are overpowered. However I don't have any problem with them getting a boost in flexibility.

I've seen two wizards in play. One of them was played up to 5th level then got digested by a gelatinous cube. He was in no way overpowered, but his flaming sphere and bigby's icy grasp enabled him to pull his weight in the party.

The second wizard was played from 5th to 6th level, used Sleep as his 1st level daily and fireball as his 5th level daily and the player was so upset about his inability to pull his weight in combat that he has actually pulled out of the game. (he used sleep on a bunch of gnolls and basically 1 fell asleep and two were slowed. Every time he used fireball he rolled badly on the damage dice and got well below average damage. Other than that he is rolling 2d4 or 1d6 for his at-wills, while he sees everyone else rolling 1d10's or 2d6's)

Cheers

 

[Plane Sailing]

Plane Sailing, you've hit on the Spellbook house rule that I adopted about two sessions into seeing our group's wizard in play. It made the player a bit happier, though he still wound up not liking 4e overall, and in play it really didn't make any difference in his power level.

I'm glad to hear that you've been effectively playtesting the idea already and it hasn't worked out badly.

Good, it still isn't going to increase their power, only make them more versatile -- heaven forbid the class historically known for it's versatility should be more versatile than currently.

My reasoning exactly.