Adapt or Perish!

[WayneLigon]

And if other fantasy rpgs are popular and influential enough to steer the direction of the next edition of D&D, why aren't they outselling it?

Several reasons, the main one being that nothing succeeds like success. D&D was first to the market and, besides some token WoD presence, is the only RPG carried in major chain bookstores (Lineups are different in different cities, I would guess; here, there will be two-three shelves of D&D, plus a spinner rack. Then there will be 1 copy of Werewolf, 1 copy of Vampire, 1-2 copies of the latest Exalted supplement, and 1-3 Also Rans). That's a huge plus. There are also the various novel lines, each of which is a living advertisement for the game.

Another reason: TSR was the first game company to realize they were running a business instead of a hobby. Many game companies never learned that lesson, or applied it very well. WoTC has a great deal of business acumen that many other publishers can't match. That helps a great deal as well.

I would say that those reasons are the main ones, rather than D&D's sole merits as a well-designed game system. It's VHS vs Betamax again. Betamax was a clearly better product from a technical standpoint but better business acumen drove them into the dirt.

 

[cougent]

It's the new core setting. When they release the "Races of..." book, I'm playing a fire hydrant sorcerer/rogue/dentist

[cleaning Dr Pepper off monitor now, thanks!]

You don't matter. You've already bought lots of books. You're a tapped out market. WotC needs to appeal to different people now. You wouldn't want them to waste their time with you and your spent wallet, would you?

Hey! get out of my empty wallet. Yes, (sigh, looking at 60+ WotC 3/3.5 books) I am tapped, tapped in the head. I don't plan on getting this engrossed and distracted ever again... ooh, look Pathfinder from Paizo

You meant:
1/ "sandwitch demographic", which is an intriguing concept; or
2/ "Sam age demographic", which makes me wonder how old Sam is, or if it is perhaps the Age of Sam and no-one told me; or
3/ "same age demographic", which is boring.

So I'm going to go with interpretation #2. What is the Age of Sam?

Cheers, -- N

Much worse than the Age od Worms!

 

[MerricB]

Let's not forget that D&D has adapted throughout its existence - even when it was just Gary doing the bulk of work for it. There's some significant differences between his original writings on the game and later work.

Consider, in oD&D, it's explicitly stated that there shouldn't be a problem with Monster PCs, which is then contradicted in AD&D. In AD&D (DMG) it's noted that a random social class table would be of little use... and the table turns up in Unearthed Arcana!

Being first can only take you so far, especially when you start measuring a product's life in decades.

Cheers!

 

[Imaro]

I'm pretty sure Exalted is now the second-top-selling product in White Wolf's lineup, behind only Vampire. I'm also pretty sure WotC intends for it to stay that way.

Eh, I prefer Scion myself...now that's some traditional mythology (for the old school)+ popular asthetics (over the top action/cool powers/etc.) and a streamlined system that equals pure FUN.

 

[MerricB]

Why? Dungeons and Dragons, for all intents and purposes, IS fantasy roleplaying. No other fantasy rpg comes close to its popularity or influence.

What are these "current tastes" of which you are referring to? And if other fantasy rpgs are popular and influential enough to steer the direction of the next edition of D&D, why aren't they outselling it? Is D&D really in danger of losing ground to some other fantasy rpg? If so, which one?

Current tastes in FRPGs doesn't actually mean "that RPG there" - it means the preferences for the elements that come together to form a popular FRPG... such as D&D 4e.

D&D is most in danger of losing ground full stop: not because another RPG catches up, but because people abandon the game for other pastimes, because it doesn't work for them.

Cheers!

 

[hong]

Consider, in oD&D, it's explicitly stated that there shouldn't be a problem with Monster PCs, which is then contradicted in AD&D. In AD&D (DMG) it's noted that a random social class table would be of little use... and the table turns up in Unearthed Arcana!

You can tell that when a book says that a random social class table isn't useful, but then includes a random wandering prostitute table, it isn't taking self-consistency too seriously.

 

[Hairfoot]

You can tell that when a book says that a random social class table isn't useful, but then includes a random wandering prostitute table, it isn't taking self-consistency too seriously.

Where is that? I need a list of CR 3 prostitutes which inhabit temperate plains.

 

[Wolfspider]

Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

Thanks for the free psychoanalysis! Now I won't have to go to the therapist this week.

 

[Nifft]

Much worse than the Age od Worms!

You meant:

1/ "Age old Worms", which would probably be Purple Worms; or
2/ "Age id Worms", which would be the midlife crisis; or
3/ "Aged Worms", which would be Ancient Dragons; or
4/ "Age of Worms", which would be boring.

So I'm going to go with #2. How's the midlife crisis?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Hussar]

So ... you're saying that a generation with one set of culturally shared memories of fantasy literature has to adapt to modern fantasy norms with which they aren't familiar and that don't have the same impact? Unless I misread your post, that's pure nonsense, Merric. We don't game with people who aren't at our gaming tables, the forty year olds with established groups aren't inviting middle schoolers into their games.

Generations are left behind for the reasons you state, but it doesn't mean that their own games have to adapt or die. It's the marketing department, the art department, and the designers at WotC who have to adapt or die. If a game's right for me, and rings the bell of fantasy for me, then that's my geame whether it's still in print or not. This is true for me as a 1e player, and it should be true for the 3e players who choose to stick with 3e, too.

Bully for you with a stable group that has gamed together for years.

Guess what? You're a very small minority. Most groups have a half life of about 2-3 years. That's it. Poll after poll here has shown that and WOTC's own market research has shown that.

So, yeah, most of us are gaming with mixed ages. My group right now ranges from 18 to 35. And has done so for the last five years (different players obviously). So, yeah, those of you who are running 15 year campaigns, great. But, for the rest of us mere mortals, having something new come along every eight to ten years isn't a big deal.