Anti-LotR

[ColonelHardisson]

I'm more than happy to discuss the subject, which I was doing. I simply don't see the need to sit and take being insulted. I'm not doing it to anyone else, and I don't expect it to be done to me. Doc's an intelligent poster, and I enjoy reading his stuff, as I've said.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Rather than have this thread turn into a flame war, I'll just bow out of it, and lurk rather than post. I apologize for the interruption; please continue as before.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

I'm more than happy to discuss the subject, .

OK then. I know it isn't out yet, but how far do you think Jackson can go in TTT before crossing the line into rewriting. I personal will be irritaded if either Arwin or Eowyn end up fighting in the battle of Helm's deep. I know Arwin is supposed to make another aprearence with Aragorn's sword. If Jackson puts either of them in the battle though I will begin to lose some respect for him. It is one thing to beef up characters using secondary sources, and I can even forgive replacing Gorfingal to give Arwin more screen time, but rewiting to this extent would not be good.

 

[KnowTheToe]

Writing and moving making are about creating a good story.

Having certain characters fight in a scene is not going to change the enjoyment of the story for me. The extra screen time may allow viewers to learn more about the characters. Information they may learn in the books but that is otherwise not translated into any other part of the movie.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

But this is not who thier characters are.

Arwin is very much the romantic, not a fighter. She is the softer side to Aragorn. In the books she does not touch the weapons but rather sews the banner that rallies the troops. If you make her a fighter you are changing who she is. It would be like making Pippen sensitive and wise (yes he gets wiser at the end but that is character development)

Eowyn defintely has a stronger edge to her, but she is pushed there. It is only with the death of her brother that she even has a presumption that she will have any power. It was by being forced into the mountains with the women and children that she became irritated with the situation enough to think about sneaking off with the army. No in book two we have the moonstruck girl who will later grow into the strong woman she is in book III.

 

[Storminator]

It is not the magic of her people or of the land, it is the magic of her father. I felt it was important to the story that Elrond was a badass himself and that it was HIS protection that kept them safe. Yes elves are powerfull, but there are only two who are that powerful: Elrond and Galadriel and that is because they each wear a ring of power. The power of the land of Rivendell and Lothlorien is derived from the rings, and the reason that Lothlorien will die is not because Galadriel will leave but beacuse her ring will lose its power when the one is destroyed. Gandolf has the third but it is unclear whether his magic is because of it or his heritage. It is possible to have Arwen be a strong character without this. Would it have been so bad if she had called out "Father we need your help" or something similar.

This is a bit of an esoteric point, but in LotR it's quite hard to divorce the power of an individual from the power of the land he/she inhabits. The powerful remake the land in their own image. We see that clearest with Mordor, and with Rivendell and Lorien. But Saruman, Bombadil, Cirdan Shipwright, the Paths of the Dead, Shelob's Lair, Fangorn, etc, are all places were powerful individuals make powerful places.

In fact, Gandalf is the ONLY powerful wanderer in the series, and it's enough to grant him a couple of names: Grey Pilgrim and Grey Wanderer.

In light of this, calling on Elrond's magic and the magic of the land are identical.

Of course, that's the book talking, and not the film. I'm pretty sure no one gets any of that from the film.

PS

 

[Storm Raven]

Eowyn defintely has a stronger edge to her, but she is pushed there. It is only with the death of her brother that she even has a presumption that she will have any power.

Eowyn's brother does not die. Eowyn is sister to Eomer, who surivies the books and becomes King of the Riddermark.

Her cousin, Theodred dies, but that is off-stage. Her uncle, Theoden dies, but that is later in the story.

 

[Storm Raven]

Arwin doesn't even show up in the main text of the Fellowship, she is relegated to the apendix. Pulling Arwin from the apendix to the main story doesn't bother me since its not as if Jackson was just making it up, and I think it does add somewhat to the story.

Umm, no, Arwen (spelled with an "e", not an "i") shows up in Rivendell in FotR, she even has some lines where she talks to Frodo.

 

[Storm Raven]

He does rule the Rangers does he not? One word off screen and the weapons could easily be supplied to him.

Maybe, but we didn't see any other rangers at all, and they aren't even implied in the book that he comes across any at any point between Bree and Rivendell. It is an unexplained plot hole that could have easily been handled better. It's not that big of a deal, but it is odd.

 

[KnowTheToe]

Maybe, but we didn't see any other rangers at all, and they aren't even implied in the book that he comes across any at any point between Bree and Rivendell. It is an unexplained plot hole that could have easily been handled better. It's not that big of a deal, but it is odd.

It is a hole in the plot, but is not really noticable except by dopes like us who over analyze movies