D&D (2024) Are You Happy with the Selection of Subclasses?

[Parmandur]

Yeah celestial warlock is my current favourite thematically. I find it weird how so many people object to it existing at all.

Per the Beyond data we saw a while back, Celestial is one of the most popular choices, same as Swashbuckler for Rogue: that had to play a big part in the choice.

 

[Remathilis]

Oath of Glory doesn't have any grapple features.

Peerless Athlete gave advantage on Strength (Athletics) checks, which was the old system for grappling. So it was a great build to get Skill Expert (Athletics) and Peerless Athlete and Grapple your Heart Out.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Celestial makes a lot of sense, offering a clearly "light side" choice for folks who don't want to play an Edgelord Warlock. It also gives the Warlock four completely distinct moral situations for their Patrons.

Fair enough.

Abjurer took me aback, until it was pointed out that Evokwr as offense and Abjurer as defense made a pairing,

I understand it, but it feels like a structural balance that isn't reflected in play. Have you ever seen an Abjurer in play? I haven't. I could see Abjurer blending with War Magic, say, or something like the bard's college of swords. But on it's own? I can't do the abjuring things I want to.

while Illusionist as creating falsehood and Diviner as discovering truth made another pair. Pretty happy with the thematic mirroring there now.

I'd not seen that. Thanks.

Wsr's role now is allowing a Cleric to interact with Weapon Masteries, seems even more appropriate now considering how big a part of combat those are shaping up to be.

That's what a feat is for.

Aberrant gives a core Psion in the PHB, amd Clockwork tapa into the D&D distinct IP of Modrons and Mechanus. Makes sense to me.

I quite like the psionic subclasses we were given in Tasha's, even if it's not the most robust way of presenting psionics, I feel. So I get it. I just don't care -- any of the three Xanathar's subclasses I get the appeal instantly: there's something I want to do playing one of them. I don't feel that with these.

 

[Remathilis]

Aberrant gives a core Psion in the PHB, amd Clockwork tapa into the D&D distinct IP of Modrons and Mechanus. Makes sense to me.

Clockwork is still very niche compared to tapping into the Primal power of storms, the Divine power of the Gods, or the Dark power of the Shadowfell.

 

[Parmandur]

That's what a feat is for.

A Subclass is essentially a Feat chain.

 

[Parmandur]

Clockwork is still very niche compared to tapping into the Primal power of storms, the Divine power of the Gods, or the Dark power of the Shadowfell.

Yes, bit it is a parallelism with Wild Mage, and ties into unique WotC-owned IP. So it makes sense.

 

[Parmandur]

I quite like the psionic subclasses we were given in Tasha's, even if it's not the most robust way of presenting psionics, I feel. So I get it. I just don't care -- any of the three Xanathar's subclasses I get the appeal instantly: there's something I want to do playing one of them. I don't feel that with these.

Problem with Sorcerer Subclasses, for me, is that Draconic and Wild cast such a large shadow the others have trouble standing out. Wild Mage was an amazing experience in play.

 

[Mistwell]

Oath of Glory doesn't have any grapple features.

No it had features which were intended to help with grapples but now don't I seem to recall. Advantage of athletics checks I think, which was intended to help with grapples?

 

[Parmandur]

Peerless Athlete gave advantage on Strength (Athletics) checks, which was the old system for grappling. So it was a great build to get Skill Expert (Athletics) and Peerless Athlete and Grapple your Heart Out.

OK, they still can get advantage on Athletic checks. Grapple isn't spelled noun as a Subclass ability, and isn't a problem for compatability.

No it had features which were intended to help with grapples but now don't I seem to recall. Advantage of athletics checks I think, which was intended to help with grapples?

Yes, they can Channel Divnkty for advantages and bonuses on Arhletics checks. Whixh is still there and fully functional. Not related to Grapple explicitly.

 

[Remathilis]

OK, they still can get advantage on Athletic checks. Grapple isn't spelled noun as a Subclass ability, and isn't a problem for compatability.

Yes, they can Channel Divnkty for advantages and bonuses on Arhletics checks. Whixh is still there and fully functional. Not related to Grapple explicitly.

Hopefully, they will fix Oath of Glory to give some advantage to grappling again. I feel it was a unintended side effect of the grapple rules changing than a direct nerf.