Armour Dilemma: Am I Wrong Here?

[Henry]

I mean, really - players have to arrive at the site of combat in 36 seconds, or 100 guards die? If that's the case, then I think you made the vampires' plan a little too brilliant and efficient, and shouldn't be upset that your players weren't able to deal with it.

However, Fusangite's earlier post explaining what he really meant by that makes it a little more understandable. I could live with the fact that taking 4 minutes to don full armor means that they would start turning people; but the players also should have realized that even arriving after the fact and breaking into this "impregnable" castle with Greater Dispels and Dispel Magics could have slowed the conversion process down some.

Long story short, this particular player got abusive over a game. That shouldn't be tolerated. But sometimes misunderstanding a situation can make people feel embarrassed first and angry second, as in the case of thinking that ale is flammable, or thinking that the DM took his very statement of "if they attack tonight we're sitting ducks" and used it against him...

 

[Arnwyn]

I don't believe that anyone here said it was okay for a player to verbally assault you, just that some frustration and anger was understandable. Unlike a dinner party (where the host usually does all the work), in gaming, the players are also creating characters, plans, etc. In many games, I have invested more time and work than my GMs.

When I started reading this, I thought you were about to try to say that players put as much work into the game as DMs - then I read your last sentence, and you were!

Inconceivable (to me, at least). Next you'll be trying to tell me the sky is purple!

 

[D'karr]

...

Inconceivable ...!

I do not believe that word means what you think it means... LOL

 

[Arnwyn]

I do not believe that word means what you think it means... LOL

"Impossible to comprehend or grasp fully" - or am I missing something that's supposed to be funny, here (and with such a busy day here at the office, that would be conceivable...!).

 

[Henry]

Reference to movie "The Princess Bride."

 

[buzzard]

No. Heavy Armor sucks.

I have to go with the group that thinks the DM screwed up.
You chose to enforce a rule, or just set up a situation that uses that rule, that points out a glaring hole in 3e mechanics.

Heavy Armor has more than enough penalties, for no apparent benefit. If your players choose to nerf themselves by using it, you dont further need to punish them.

You have a very odd view of the rules. Heavy armor is quite nice for people without high dex. The ability to have a 20 AC without any magic is pretty damn good. That is hardly nerfing. What is the disadvantage? Move slow- BFD. Armor check penalties- for fighters and clerics who have didly skills- BFD
Long time to don- BFD in most cases.

Enforcing the rules is not punishment. He gave the people a choice. They made their choice. One nimrod couldn't deal with his choice. The DM is not even vaguely at fault.

Not to mention, You has the whole episode over in 4 minutes!!!
Geez, It still took the US 3 weeks to take Iraq and most mid-evil cities are better defended than that.

And how long did each firefight take?
This wasn't the whole war, it was just a brief engagement. You might want to re-read this thread. You seem to not understand the situation.

buzzard

 

[maddman75]

I'm 100% behind the DM on this issue. If you have any fault fusangite, its that your players are not nearly paranoid enough.

The player that went off - well if he did that to me he'd be lucky to not get a boot in the ass, much less invited back.

And the level of metagaming boggles the mind. Screw the townspeople, I've got to put my armor on == welcome to being a 12th level warrior, paladin. That kind of callous disregard for human life for the sake of one's own skin is an evil act. Clerics may be in trouble as well, depending on the ethos of the deity in question.

And why couldn't they put on a chain shirt? Or failing that get some mage armor from the sorcerer? Or fight defensively? Or take some armor off a dead guardsman? Or if they were all converted kill one and take his armor?

Its not exactly like they had no options, and personally I love situations like this. Sometimes there's nothing to do but trust in the dice and see what you're made of.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Allow me to clarify what precisely I mean about laxly enforcing armour restrictions in the past. Every single time anyone has had to put their armour on, the rules have been observed to the letter -- 40/20 rounds and all.

What I meant by laxness is my willingness to accept people's lame excuses about why, at a particular moment, they already have their armour on and therefore don't need to don it. For this reason, I picked a time in the dead of night when there was no possible reason anyone could reasonably have their armour on unless they were sacrificing their capacity to regain spells by not sleeping.

Then none of the problem was your fault.

 

[Valiantheart]

quote:
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Originally posted by Marshall

Not to mention, You has the whole episode over in 4 minutes!!!
Geez, It still took the US 3 weeks to take Iraq and most mid-evil cities are better defended than that.
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And how long did each firefight take?
This wasn't the whole war, it was just a brief engagement. You might want to re-read this thread. You seem to not understand the situation.

buzzard

This is a problem of the unrealistic nature of 3E time mechanics. I think the DMs fault in this case was confusing what a monster can do in a round with what it should have taken it to do in a more realistic time frame.

The way this "trap" is setup its basically 1 round of attacks, 1 round of charms, 1 round of domination, 1 round of moving everybody into position for the vampires to turn. In 3E game turns this took 24 seconds. Hell it takes 10 seconds to tie your shoes for gods sake. No time was allotted for people to tremble in fear, or for the vamps to communicate or herd people. The problem is in this instance a "round" should not have been ruled to be six seconds. More like 30 seconds a piece.

3E combat can often come to an end in the space of 3-5 rounds. By 3E time thats 18-30 seconds to kill that Pit Fiend, Red Dragon, or in this case a cadre of Vampires. Please!

The time to don armor was not provided so a stringent DM can count off rounds on his pad and paper while the rest of the characters spend whats amounts to eternity donning their armor. Its not a coincidence that 2E considered a round to be a full 1 minute long. The thing people forget is that the time to don armor hasnt changed from 2E to 3E, but the length of a combat round has changed dramatically. A good DM knows when its time to stick stringently to the rules and when its time to bend them a little bit.

 

[Nephet]

The Party blew it not the DM - and there was no reason for the unamed player to be that abusive. If he was my friend I would talk to him about it and find out why he actually got so mad.