D&D 5E Assassins, Alignment, and Archetypes

[Charlaquin]

We really need to get past the name. Call them Nightshades, or Ghost Killers, or Grey Men, or Rainbow Warriors, whatever gives you feels. The thread is going to keep calling them assassins, as per the OP. The thread is not about common hit men, or amoral killers for hire. Think of it as highly skilled special operatives who specialize in high power targets. Infiltration, stealth, and efficient and precise melee rather than brute force. More specifically, how to realize that idea in a class that manages to feel separate from from Rogue and Fighter.

The thing is, it sounds like you’re describing a rogue or a Dex-based fighter here. I can only speak for myself, but what I am trying to do in discussing what is or is not an assassin is trying to suss out what exactly the archetype we’re trying to capture here is. I suspect I’m not alone in this.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Implementing something like shrouds, if we are likening that to finding weak spots, could be accomplished in two ways. One, you observe the target for X time, call that the stealth method; or two, after fighting an opponent for a round (or something to that effect). So it works on the "case your target basis" but also works in normal melee but would be indexed at larger target and not so much mooks. In both cases observation is the key.

I kinda prefer a bonus action, so that you can, sometimes, just gank a scrub in the first round. I’d even add the ability to do it when initiative is rolled as a reaction at mid level, making you even more dangerous in round one.

 

[Fenris-77]

If you want dangerous in round one the Rogue archetype is great at it. I'd suggest mechanics that support more than one play style, whatever that looks like, but generally pointed at solid DPR and some nova rather than insane nova potential.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

I remember an article of Dragon Magazine in 3rd Edition about different types of assassins.

I imagine assassins as stealth class with some spells or martial maneuvers linked with the shadows.

Today that famous Ubisoft's videogame saga is a great influence for many players, but that type of "black ops" are totally different of the classic dungeon crawling.

 

[generic]

I remember an article of Dragon Magazine in 3rd Edition about different types of assassins.

I imagine assassins as stealth class with some spells or martial maneuvers linked with the shadows.

Today that famous Ubisoft's videogame saga is a great influence for many players, but that type of "black ops" are totally different of the classic dungeon crawling.

My build for a Sniper in 5E is still perhaps my favorite class concept that I've been able to pull off, in terms of min-maxing.

 

[Fenris-77]

Today that famous Ubisoft's videogame saga is a great influence for many players, but that type of "black ops" are totally different of the classic dungeon crawling.

I'd suggest that it isn't. SpecOPs clearing rooms in any video game is pretty dungeon crawly. Plus it's a lot more team oriented than the Rogue Assassin, which is, I think, key to what the OP is looking for,

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Dragon Magazine 313, the oppresor, the replacement killer and the poisoner.

My own experencie with snipers in Fornite: Save the world is big monsters are too fast to point litle zones and the candence weapons are too slow to face hordes with lots of husks, and also some enemies have got also ranged attacks. Snipers are more useful in open spaces outdoors, but climbing to a higher zone isn't so easy, and sometimes you have to change to another position. If you know the mission then the best option should be a kill-box, a base with traps in the corridors.

In some survival horror videogames, for example the evil within, sometimes stealth is the best option.

How do I imagine a "good" assassin? how a monster terminator, for example a vampire-hunter. Other option would be like Iy, the elf archer heroine from "Orcs must die: Unchained", here in this game the most of kills were by traps, because she was a good ranged DPS but weak endurace.

* In a shooter videogame you haven't to worry about hidding corpses or avoid noises to not be discoverd by the rest of centinels. Do you know the videogame "Shadow Tatics: blades of the shogun" or Spanish "Commands", and Splinter Cell?

 

[Lanefan]

What does (or should) an Assassin-class character do better than anyone else? What should its niches be? What should its weaknesses be? Let's start from there, basing it off Rogue.

What does (or should) an Assassin do better than anyone else, and what should its niches be?

Disguise. This should be a true niche of the class; have them be by far the best at physical disguises (which, note, things like True Sight will still be fooled by); other classes can try this at low-ish odds of success but Assassins can do it almost perfectly right out of the gate.

Poison. This should also be a class niche. Assassins are trained to recognize poisons, apply and administer them, treat or cure them with antidotes, and - at later levels - develop their own. Other classes can try some of these but at low-ish odds; except apply and administer which anyone can do only the Assassins is at much less (or zero) risk of accidentally administering poison to him/herself.

Killing. Against the right sort of targets (I'd suggest humanoids only, with size range increasing as level advances) this should be a class niche: only Assassins can one-shot kill on a good strike. This would require some tweaking of how 5e handles damage; in the specific case of Assassins a melee sneak attack that rolls 5 or more over what's required to hit bypasses hit points completely and either a) kills the target on the spot if the target is equal or lower level/HD than the Assassin or b) puts the target at 0 h.p. and into death saves if above the Assassin's level/HD. On a roll to hit that succeeds by less than 5 normal sneak attack damage still applies. Best of all, when attacking an unaware opponent they'd strike as if a Fighter of their level for the first attack.

Higher-level Assassins can use two weapons when doing this, with either one capable of a one-shot kill.

Stealth. Shared niche with other Rogue-type classes, with abilities about on par with Rogue for things like hiding, stealth, etc.

What should its weaknesses be?

Frontal melee. They're just not very good at it. They're unable to use anything other than light armour and their combat training (other than for killing strikes) is only slightly better than a Wizard.

Alignment. They have to be evil, because - and this is a 1e definition that I quite like - poison use is an inherently evil act.

Killing. Yes, this is also a weakness: the Assassin only gets to attempt the killing strike attack once per encounter; and if it misses the opponent(s) become(s) aware of the Assassin and the Assassin's in trouble. Note this differs from Rogue sneak attacks which they can keep using; an Assassin only gets one good shot.

That's enough to start with...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

There's hard ways and easy ways to approach this project. Poison, frankly, is the hard way. There are excellent 3PP supplements for it anyway and some DMs might be fine with the class but not want rampant poison use. Poison as a class feature is goofy - either the game has poisons nastier than PHB or it doesn't, and if it does its tool based, not class based.

Light sneak attack against a hobbled target sounds like a pain in the butt. Extended crit range with advantage is a cleaner mechanic - advantage can be manufactured by the assassin more easily than a condition so it's less dependent on other characters. You can play around a lot with crit range too - extend the d20 range, either in general or under certain conditions, plus you can monkey around with the number of dice. I think it indexes better DPR rather than nova, and that's more fun to play IMO.

The issue with relying primarily on crits is that it’s less in the players control than other class mechanics.

I’d start with some specialized ways to gain advantage, bring 19-20 crit at level 3 or so, 18-20 at 11, and expand the ways to have advantage there as well.

but the main damage thing is stacking shrouds to add dice to an attack after you know you hit. Like a planning oriented smite.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Chemical weapons are against the Geneve Convention.... but can I summon monster or natural allies with poisonous bite?

Killing is evil... if the victims are innocent civilians. If my PC is a sniper who shoots against high officials of an invader force (for example the white walkers)...report me!

Yes, we are used to imagine the assassin like one-hit-kill (and in the real combat this should be like this) but in the game it may break the balance of power.

Arya Stark is closer to assassin than rogue or swashbuckler, isn't she?

* Have you seen the 1972 movie "the mechanic", with Charle Bronson as main character? a true hitman whose work "has to seem an accident".