D&D 5E Berserker is balanced with Zealot without exhaustion from Frenzy

[UngeheuerLich]

Lets be Honest, the bear totem Feature des not come into play in many Fights too. IT is just that frenzy feels a lot more punitive because it is the only feature the frenzy barbarian gets.
If you just add a small feature like:
- at the end of a short rest you can make a con save against DC 15 to reduce your exhaustion Level by 1
OR
- whenever you enter rage you may make a single weapon attack.

The first one is more exploration oriented, the second one fixes two holes in the class:
In the first round you can't use your frenzy Feature because you already used your bonus action to enter rage and you have a constant always on benefit that is at least comparable to the champion's improved crit.

I probably would use the latter Varianz because it shoukd make the barbarian Player feel well without the need of going frenzy every time.
I wouls also allow to enter frenzy at any point during a rage, not only at the beginning.

 

[CapnZapp]

Lets be Honest, the bear totem Feature gets better and better as you level up, and at high level where the energy damage is flying all over the battlefield is what separates the Barbarian from everyone else in terms of staying power.

In contrast, the RAW berserker is a failed subclass noone mindful of performance will touch with a stick.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Lets be Honest, the bear totem Feature gets better and better as you level up, and at high level where the energy damage is flying all over the battlefield is what separates the Barbarian from everyone else in terms of staying power.

In contrast, the RAW berserker is a failed subclass noone mindful of performance will touch with a stick.

Not really. But we had that diacussion already. Bear Totem is the worst of the lot. I appreciate Wolf Totem a lot more. But to each his own.

 

[Gladius Legis]

Bear Totem is the worst of the lot.

Uh, no.

 

[FrogReaver]

I find my short rest exhaustion recovery plus capping SRs at 3/day works perfectly.

Oh there is also the option in the Primeval Thule players guide of a feat that reduces your exhaustion level by 3 I think, which can be used by anyone but benefits Berserkers the most.

Exhaustion is important for other scenarios. I don't think in general that it should recover on a short rest.

 

[FrogReaver]

Zealot may be better than a bezerker, but it still sucks compared to a paladin, so I would bring up the weaker barbarians rather than nerf the stronger ones.

I would say that the existence of magical armor spikes is pretty much essential for battleragers to be viable, and the race "restriction" was never stronger than a suggestion.

The Zealot is equal to a Paladin IMO

 

[FrogReaver]

Not really. But we had that diacussion already. Bear Totem is the worst of the lot. I appreciate Wolf Totem a lot more. But to each his own.

I guess that depends on party makeup, party tactics and encounter makeup. Against a BBEG and the barbarian has melee allies then wolf is great. In a party in an encounter with multiple enemies where melee allies spread out and engage separate enemies not so much.

I prefer bear because it gives me the knowledge I can go up to anything and be fine which frees up party resources for other party members as well as allowing me to always play as the super tough barbarian that fears nothing (which isn't so much a mechanical concern but still is important) Wolf is good against non-mobile BBEG's but I tend to find BBEG's without fodder aren't a real threat.

 

[RhaezDaevan]

What if the berserker could frenzy once per long rest without exhaustion and then any further frenzies then cause the exhaustion levels?

 

[Stalker0]

Not really. But we had that diacussion already. Bear Totem is the worst of the lot. I appreciate Wolf Totem a lot more. But to each his own.

I think that award would go squarely into Tiger Totem.

Bear: Huge defense bonus
Wolf: Awesome team offense bonus
Eagle/Elk: Amazing mobility increase (eagle blows elk out of the water to me, but both are still in the same vein).
Tiger: Um...I get to jump a little farther.

 

[Stalker0]

In contrast, the RAW berserker is a failed subclass noone mindful of performance will touch with a stick.

Having seen a berserker played (I'm the DM) at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels (we did a time skip campaign), I can say that while they may not be equal to a Zealot in raw performance, they are still very good.

The immunity to fear and charm is a really overlooked ability, especially with a DM who allows his characters to shine by giving spotlight to their strengths. For example, in one combat, a creature attempted to dominate the barbarian. The barb was immune to charm and so immune to the effect. But he rolled a great bluff check to act like his was dominated, so we played it out that the barbarian was able to get nice and close to the monster, and then ripped it to pieces.

Most players are going to remember that scene a lot longer than all the combats they did a few more points of damage.

My point is not that the subclass is balanced (I agree its behind the curve), but its not "failed". As long as a class provides good hooks that let characters shine, the DM can balance the rest. Its the classes that have no hooks, that are just watered down and generic, that are truly "fails".