FrogReaver
The most respectful and polite poster ever
Just damage lol… Dead is the best effect
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D&D (2024) Best fix for conjure minor elemental?
- Thread starter mellored
- Start date
Enchantment Wizard Hypnotic Gaze is extremely powerful. If you land it you can keep the Enemy incapacitated for up to 5 days with no more saves or infinite if you have someone to cast Greater Restoration on you.
As long as you don't damage him you can do whatever you want, have your fighter grapple him, move him, drop him off a cliff, whatever you want. The only time limit is the Wizard dying of exhaustion.
Zardnaar
Legend
It's that and the level 10 split spell ability. At level 10 I would put Enchanter in the S tier.
Zardnaar
Legend
It is but people are assuming all the attacks hit.
A hold spell requires no set up, grants advantage to hit and doubles all damage inflicted.
And it removes the target until they make a save. And kicks in from level 3 vs 13 in these white wall room.
I listed the things I think are better than CME.
Because to land any of it you need to be within 15 feet and hold on to concentration for 2 rounds. Most of the time you will have to make numerous concentration saves and for it to matter it needs to be a single high hit point enemy.
I mean you say it is not situational, but you can't come up with a single enemy it would actually work against and when I asked you to you gave an example of an entire party using their abilities to land this one thing. In still wouldn't have worked in the example you gave and needing other party members to help so you can leverage your big spell is situational in itself.
High level melee is far more reilable and will average far more damage than you will land with this. It will even average more damage in the fight you use it in.
No they aren't. That is not how Legendary actions work. 2014 Monster manual page 11:
A legendary creature can take a certain number of special actions — called legendary actions — outside its turn. Only one legendary action option can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature’s turn.
Monk Drags Wizard into place. Monk ends turn. The Monk is another creature.
Dragon gets Legendary and attacks Wizard, Wizard has to make concentration save
Artificer casts Haste Artificer ends turn. The Artificer is another creature
Dragon gets Legendary and uses wing buff, knocks Wizard prone, damages him and flys away. Wizard has to make concentration save
Now it is the Wizard's turn!
Legendary actions are supposedly being phased out for multiple reactions, but one of the reactions I have seen like on the 2025 Ancient Green Dragon includes as a trigger, another creature ending its turn.
Because concentration does not end them and they do not require a 2-round setup or precasting to be effective.
And yeah the silence spell I cast in the last fight yesterday did not work at all .... for the same exact reason CME would not have worked.
Using Silence close to a creature with Legendary actions is extremely dicey and in the end I wasted my slot and my action doing it and if I had just attacked her instead she might already be dead.
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Before you spot it.
Yes and it takes the first one at the end of the Monk's turn! That is when you take Legendary actions. You don't understand the rules.
This is right in the link you provided:
The dragon can take 3 legendary actions, choosing from the options below. Only one legendary action option can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature's turn.
The Monk ends his turn and the Dragon prones the Wizard and flys away.
But he isn't dead when he will prone the Wizard
So you keep saying this is not situational but you provide an example where the person upcasting CME requires an Artificer in the party who prepares an infusion just for him?
I have said many times it is situationally awesome, and needing not just another character but an Artificer sho uses an otherwise weak infusion for the level to make it work is an EXTREME example of being situational
I provided examples in play of 7 actual high level fights yesterday where it would have been a waste or would not have worked. You were asked to provide a hypothetical of when it would and still haven't.
The one hypothetical example you did provide included an entirely SITUATIONAL party make up to demonstrate its effectiveness and still would not have worked.
They don't, but they will negate this CME build quite often.
Now if you shot a little lower - a 8th level CME from a Sorcerer 14/fighter 6 using quicken spell and action surge .... it would be pretty darn effective, reliable and not situational. But it would not have this 500 hit points effectiveness like what you tried and failed to demonstrate.
The Dragon still flys away between your turn and the Monk's turn. What do you not understand about this?
And keep in mind this is a set piece example, where you purposely have a Monk that can drag you into combat, where you had time to precast the spell for some reason and where you won initiative (or more accurately chose a mix of allies so you would).
No I am not. If the Monk gets a turn the Dragon gets a Legendary action.
The only way it gets no Legendary action before its turn is if it wins initiative ... in which case it just breathes on you and flies away.
Yeah you have a friend to drag you around so your spell can be effective.
That is what would be called situational.
Highly situational example! Your party gets first strike with the Monk dragging you. The Dragon gets second strike with his Legendary action
Also you are riding a horse somewhere that a Dragon can't fly?
Ok. It is obvious you either don't know the rules or have not done a lot of high level play with a caster. If you ready Scorching Ray you need to drop concentration on CME .... so then you do no damage at all because the Dragon is immune to Fire damage. (2024 PHB page 373, 2014 PHB page 193).
IF you are ignoring rules on things like Concentration and Legendary actions it is an entirely different situation.
Oh and I guess now you have added a 5th party memer since Dimension Door is not on the Artificer or Ranger list.
You claim it is a rare case but can't come up with an example creature it will work on.
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mellored
Legend
That is a setup round. But let's compare. I'll just assume hold person lands.
(2d6+5 * 4) * .25 for advantage = 12
(1d12+5 * 5) * .25 for advantage = 14.375
2d6 4 +1d12 5 = 60.5 extra damage from crits.
= +86.875 damage
Vs CME (6th) + quicken Eldritch Blast
(1d10+5+6d8)*4
= 150 damage * 50% accuracy.
= 75 damage.
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FrogReaver
The most respectful and polite poster ever
No they aren’t. They are assuming chance to hit attacks hit.
Yes it does. Always takes a combat action to cast. Does nothing if they pass the initial save. Doesn’t boost damage at all unless your allies attack the enemy, which they may not even get a chance to do depending on initiative.
Don’t get me wrong I think hold person/monster is a good spell, but it’s a bit risky (high chance of doing nothing).
Not true. They make an initial save before anything happens, then they make another at the end of each of their turns.
Above the norm and the crazy numbers being thrown around are two different things. I have rarely (maybe never) seen concentration last multiple fights against CR24+ foes while also staying within 15 feet of them.
Above the norm is not game breaking. 162 damage if you manage to hit 3 times, after using an action or quicken spell to cast a 9th level spell and being within 15 feet is not gamebreaking at the level you can take it. Usually to do this reliably though you are going to need to use quicken spell to get it in on one round.
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in the 2014 rules Enchantment Wizard is the most powerful caster certainly, especially on a Goblin.
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