D&D (2024) Best fix for conjure minor elemental?

Yes. 15' emanation.
But it's not broken at level 4.

It breaks due to quadratic scaling.
+2d8 per spell level per attack.

If your not upcasting or not multi-attacking, it's not a problem.

Wizard and Druid. Bard can steal it.
I would be more worried if it was a sorcerer or Warlock spell.

You pretty much gave to use your highest level slot followed up with another spell slot eg Scorching ray at the highest levels to deal anything apart from mediocre damage.
The opportunity cist is also very high.

I woukd suggest you're better off doing sonething you're goid at eg control vs this hypothetical white room.

It doesn't compare that well to the old -5/+10 feats. My resident powergamer basically said so what vs the new Sorcerers.
 

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I would be more worried if it was a sorcerer or Warlock spell.
Considering how rarely I've made it past level 10, I'm not worried. But I still think it needs changed.

I'm leaning towards 1/turn, and maybe turning it into a bonus action.

Also, my players know that if they do something, I will also do it.

When a power gamer brought an assassin/gloomstalker, it lasted 6 sessions before it was killed in a surprise round by an assassin/gloomstalker. He had a good rethink of his character after that.
 

Considering how rarely I've made it past level 10, I'm not worried. But I still think it needs changed.

I'm leaning towards 1/turn, and maybe turning it into a bonus action.

Also, my players know that if they do something, I will also do it.

When a power gamer brought an assassin/gloomstalker, it lasted 6 sessions before it was killed in a surprise round by an assassin/gloomstalker. He had a good rethink of his character after that.

So the assassin/gloomstalker works outside BG3;).
 

Revamped strategy.

Use familiar / arcane eye / clairvoyance to scout.
Pre-cast CME (8th).
Ally wizard cast foresight + haste on me.
Ally wizard readies dimension door for the start of my turn.

We teleport in,
Haste -> EB
Quicken -> EB
Action Surge -> attack + EB
Action - attack + EB
= 16 rays
1d10+5+10d8
= 55.5 per ray
16 rays = 888 damage * 75% accuracy
= 666 damage.

+3 weapon attacks (including Nick)
+possible Scorching Ray (7th) for another 4 attacks.


If running solo, you can use Phantom Steed to get first strike in most situations and maybe 1-shot some of these things without haste.
no... just no, I refuse to go back to 'scry and die' tactics being the smartest way to play high level... this would make the new revised 5e into the worst parts of 3e...my least favorite edition
 

Above the norm and the crazy numbers being thrown around are two different things. I have rarely (maybe never) seen concentration last multiple fights against CR24+ foes while also staying within 15 feet of them.
I throw high level threats at my party on the regular.... but a CR24+ monster at a party of level 10 is a HUGE last boss, not 4 encounters in a row in a dungeon, try again with CR 11-14 monsters now
 

This. I think it's a good spell buy situational. Might be the best damage dealing spell but it's only direct damage.

Scorching ray is cute but it's also the second most resistant damage type after poison.
The scorching ray damage is pretty irrelevant when compared to the CME damage. If you're using it against a red dragon, just switch CME to cold damage.

So you need a low AC enemy with buckets of hit points, no resistances, a higher level spell slot etc. And in that situation it's really good.
No, not "no resistances". Unless the opponents are resistant to all elemental damage, CME can be used to full effect. Or more, if they have elemental vulnerabilities you can identify.
 

no... just no, I refuse to go back to 'scry and die' tactics being the smartest way to play high level... this would make the new revised 5e into the worst parts of 3e...my least favorite edition
It's just one spell that scales too much, and only at high levels.

Not indicative of the whole edition.
 

It's just one spell that scales too much, and only at high levels.

Not indicative of the whole edition.
Use familiar / arcane eye / clairvoyance to scout.
Pre-cast CME (8th).
Ally wizard cast foresight + haste on me.
Ally wizard readies dimension door for the start of my turn.

We teleport in,
Haste -> EB
Quicken -> EB
Action Surge -> attack + EB
Action - attack + EB

this (to me) looks like 1 scout scry part 3 precast buffs and a teleport to get the surprise... now it still comes down to initiative but if that buffed super caster goes first the bad guy stands no chance
 

HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY Situational with multiple players working and using numerous resources to set up this one spell (and risking a teleport failure).

You are proving my point - it is very situational.

I want an example that does not rely on other PCs having the exact spells you need to make it work and that you don't have to scout ahead of time or cast a spell ahead of time or have a specific corner case build just for this one fight.

Claiming something is good on a multiclass build using a 2014 Subclass and a Warlock dip while also needing other specific spells to make it work is situational.

If this is such a powerful spell and not situtional, it should be usable on a straight class spell caster ina situation that does not require precasting or a ton of extra setup.

For example - I cast Forcecage on him and just use Cantrips until he is dead. That is an extremely powerful spell and will work most of the time. It will work on most of the monsters I named, and it will work regardless of what kind of caster the PC is, regardless of his allies and it will even usually work with no allies at all. There are some enemies it does not work against but it is widely useable and relatively robust across a large range of party makeups with a large range of spell caster builds, with little specificity on initiative, or pre-scounting an area, or precasting a spell and it works against a large number of powerful monsters ... i.e. it is not situational



Because you need to get within 15 feet to get any CME damage.




Yes they can. Where are you getting this from? Please provide a reference that states they can not use legendaries before their turn. Monster Manual on page 11 clearly says they use Legendary actions "at the end of another creatures turn"

You don't understand the rules.

Vecna: Vecna can use Fell Rebuke as a REACTION and teleport away from you and out of range after you hit him with the first attack (while also damaging you) and he gets 3 reactions a round. 12d8 plus whatever that attack is will not kill him, not even if you precast it, win initiative and crit. This will NEVER work against Vecna unless he is incapacitated before you try to pull this off and well if that is the case, what beat him being incapactitated, not your spell.

Demogorgon: Demogorgon has numerous things he can use. He can stun you from 120feet away with a Legendary action (which he absolutley can use before he goes in initiative). He also has spells that can completely debilitate you including Fear and Feeblemind and he can cast those on a legendary action too and that is if he does not win initiative. Now depending on your class you have a chance of beating that save which is why I said with some luck or in certain situations it will work against him. Not most of the time though.

Zariel: Zariel can use a Legendary action to teleport (and she can do it before the caster's turn) and will not be anywhere near a the caster using CME.

Kraken: A Kraken has a tentacle attack and fling both of which can be done with legendary actions. As I said it is situationally useful with a Kraken. Most of the time it is not going to work. With some lucky rolls and positioning that favors the caster it can work. It is situationally effective.

Yenoghu: Yenoghu can move 50 feet as a legendary action and he can also use his flail which can paralyze the caster as a legendary action and cause a concentration save even if he is not paralyzed. RAW he can do these before he goes in combat. Playing it smart with the 50 foot move he will usually be able to avoid being within 15 feet of you, playing it bloodthirsty and attacking the caster with legendary actions will make it likely to cause a drop in concentration. Either way this can be situationally effective.



Reactions work whenever the triggering event occurs. You can use it on your turn, the enemies turn, between turns, whenever the trigger happens. In the new rules you can even use a reaction before your turn if you are surprised. Vecna is the only monster I listed with reactions in the stat block. The others have Legendary actions (in the old statblock). Legendary actions that work on the end of OTHER CREATURE'S TURNS.

Please read the rules if you want to continue this discussion. You do not understand how Legendary Actions work and it is of no value discussing how things work if you fundamentally do not understand the rules.

If you keep insisting that Legendary actions come at the end of the Legendary creature's turn, please provide a page number where any official rulebook states this. Twice now, I've provided the page that says it can be used at other times.
My takeaway is that if your concern is a multi attacking 15ft range caster not being able to stay in range of these enemies, then barbarians, melee fighters, paladins and melee rangers have no chance to either.

kind of feels like your monster tactics are akin to having a dragon fly over the PCs while recharging its breath and never coming down. That’s not something I’d ever do to my players and I wouldn’t play high cr monsters in such a way that they negate all the martial classes in the game either.

Essentially your claim is that anything approaching melee range is so highly situational it sucks and that’s a claim I 100% disagree with.
 

Considering how rarely I've made it past level 10, I'm not worried. But I still think it needs changed.

I'm leaning towards 1/turn, and maybe turning it into a bonus action.

Also, my players know that if they do something, I will also do it.

When a power gamer brought an assassin/gloomstalker, it lasted 6 sessions before it was killed in a surprise round by an assassin/gloomstalker. He had a good rethink of his character after that.
Even at level 10 it’s doing 2d6+4d8 x4 = 100 damage. Or 75 with a third level scorching ray instead of 4th. That’s a lot more damage than most martials put out in a round, even with accuracy adjustments.
 

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