D&D 5E Breaking down the Fighter archetypes.

[Tony Vargas]

Champions are as boring or exciting as you make them.

It's really a matter of taste. The Campion isn't boring if you like rolling to hit a lot, and critting twice in a while instead of once in a while. For me it's every bit as cool, fun, nostalgic & exciting as the Essentials Slayer - which is to say, boring.

Champion has crit truly on demand in that it can potentially happen every attack.

That is the exact opposite of 'on demand.' If Netflix showed you a movie 'on demand' only 10% of the time, you'd call customer service.

Extra damage output isn't as great as I think? That's the fighter's entire reason for existence is to dish out extra damage output. If you're NOT about extra damage output, then fighter isn't the class for you.

Indeed.

 

[krakistophales]

It's really a matter of taste. The Campion isn't boring if you like rolling to hit a lot, and critting twice in a while instead of once in a while. For me it's every bit as cool, fun, nostalgic & exciting as the Essentials Slayer - which is to say, boring. That is the exact opposite of 'on demand.' If Netflix showed you a movie 'on demand' only 10% of the time, you'd call customer service.

Indeed.

Well, that's the rub. You can make "I hit it" as fun and imaginative or as boring and repetitive as you want.

If Netflix showed you only 6 movies and then told you to sign in next week, would you ever subscribe? In this sense "on demand" means you don't run out of it, not turning it on whenever you want. I only quoted "on demand" cuz that was the way he originally phrased it.

Indeed.

 

[Sacrosanct]

It's really a matter of taste. The Campion isn't boring

Agreed.

if you like rolling to hit a lot, and critting twice in a while instead of once in a while. .

Sigh. If all you do in combat is what is explicitly defined on your character sheet as a power or ability, then I'm sorry.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Agreed.



Sigh. If all you do in combat is what is explicitly defined on your character sheet as a power or ability, then I'm sorry.

As is so often said in conversations like these, there's zip-diddly-squat preventing you from ding that on any character. I would even argue that doing so, playing "all the parts" of a char written or unwritten, is a necessary part of "roleplaying," at least in combat. Since it IS a given, guaranteed, universal element, it does not apply to the problem in the first place. We are already assuming that this occurs; beyond this inherent element, which is present regardless of the design or even presence of a (sub)class, what does the (sub)class offer?

I mean, it seems an awful lot like saying, "If the only part of your dining experience is the food on your plate or the liquid in your glass, I feel sorry for you." We are assuming that pleasant conversation, salt and pepper, appropriate sauces (e.g. soy sauce in Asian restaurants), potentially enjoyable background music, colorful and tasteful decor, etc. are there because you choose to eat at this particular restaurant. The dish served being overcooked and tasteless is still a perfectly valid, even damning criticism, even if all other parts of the dining experience were flawless.

 

[hejtmane]

Well, that's the rub. You can make "I hit it" as fun and imaginative or as boring and repetitive as you want.

If Netflix showed you only 6 movies and then told you to sign in next week, would you ever subscribe? In this sense "on demand" means you don't run out of it, not turning it on whenever you want. I only quoted "on demand" cuz that was the way he originally phrased it.

Indeed.

On demand in other wards it is there when I say it is there at my choosing but like all things their is a bill to pay. Crits (which I do like) are random and happen when they happen

 

[Tony Vargas]

Well, that's the rub. You can make "I hit it" as fun and imaginative or as boring and repetitive as you want.

It's repetitive, you can't change that. Whether you find repetitive fun or boring is a matter of personal taste.

If Netflix showed you only 6 movies and then told you to sign in next week, would you ever subscribe?

It does sound like a better deal than only having a 10% chance of a movie you pay for actually downloading.

In this sense "on demand" means you don't run out of it, not turning it on whenever you want. I only quoted "on demand" cuz that was the way he originally phrased it.

"On demand" does mean 'whenever you want.' He probably phrased it that way because he meant it, in that sense.

 

[Sacrosanct]

As is so often said in conversations like these, there's zip-diddly-squat preventing you from ding that on any character. I would even argue that doing so, playing "all the parts" of a char written or unwritten, is a necessary part of "roleplaying," at least in combat. Since it IS a given, guaranteed, universal element, it does not apply to the problem in the first place. We are already assuming that this occurs; beyond this inherent element, which is present regardless of the design or even presence of a (sub)class, what does the (sub)class offer?

I mean, it seems an awful lot like saying, "If the only part of your dining experience is the food on your plate or the liquid in your glass, I feel sorry for you." We are assuming that pleasant conversation, salt and pepper, appropriate sauces (e.g. soy sauce in Asian restaurants), potentially enjoyable background music, colorful and tasteful decor, etc. are there because you choose to eat at this particular restaurant. The dish served being overcooked and tasteless is still a perfectly valid, even damning criticism, even if all other parts of the dining experience were flawless.

Yeah, except that the champion has remarkable athlete, which pretty much renders your entire argument wrong, since many of the things they can do outside of hitting, they do better than everyone else. I.e., it isn't the same thing for any character. And that's not even considering all the other things that would put a fighter in a better position at certain tasks than other PCs. Nice try though. Doubt it will stop you from complaining about the subclass though.

 

[krakistophales]

By all means, those who prefer battlemaster over champion, you're more than welcome to and have fun with that. I currently play a champion and a battlemaster in two separate games, champion level 6 and battlemaster level 11, so I speak from experience.

Yes, its true, with the champion in combat i approach and hit, sometimes separating my moves and hits amongst different enemies. However, I roleplay this to my liking and imagine the combat as a vivid, real time event and that makes it fun. Also, I don't mind a class that does something really well, even if its only one thing, with the champion being, hitting really hard.

I haven't had the chance to give him great weapon master, sentinel, and get the remarkable athlete yet, so I'll not speak to that, but they theoretically will turn the champion from good to great.

The battlemaster, however, uses a halberd and has heavy armor master, polearm master, sentinel, and savage attacker with 20 strength. He has 5 SD that are D10s. Yes I can nova damage really well, but in that campaign the DM doesn't let us short rest until AT LEAST 4 to 5 encounters, so honestly, being a battlemaster isn't that great. I either have to hoard my SD and therefore that renders me just a fighter with a halberd, or I have to blow my load on a difficult encounter and then I have no SD until rest and, again, I'm just a fighter with a halberd.

My champion, however, laughs in the face of no rests. While everyone else is whining about getting back their rages, smites, and spells, the champion is ready to run another marathon and is wondering what all the whining is about. This, on top of doing lots of roleplay outside of combat since he's a mercenary captain of our unit, and hitting like a truck in combat. I can't count how many times our DM just sighed in resignation when I chopped down one of his big bads with 2 crits, and only 2 cuz i only have one extra attack. Once I get GWM, sentinel, and more attacks, it'll get only crazier.

 

[TheLoneRanger1979]

Personally i quite like the 5E fighters/warriors. There seams to be a bit of many things for everyone in them, and all that is wrapped up in a neat package that allows for lots of flexibility and customization in regards to multi classing or background/skill choices. I haven't been compelled to play a fighter in 2 editions now, and this one made me do it (with pleasure). I am rolling a half elven, out lander war master right now, but my next PC would probably be a high elven eldritch knight.

EDIT: action economy and DPS be damned! Why can't we enjoy the class for its "play potential"?

 

[Istbor]

Because we are not allowed to have nice things without a consensus on exactly how nice the things are, and what the true definition of 'nice' is.