I believe this has been answered several times, but: The monk is a highly mobile control focused PC melee class. It is intended that they'd use their mobility and versatility to engage key targets in a battle and shut them down....Highly effective at WHAT? I still have no idea what the designers intended the Monk to actually DO. What's his role in a party? What does he bring to the table? Whatever it is, it doesn't seem to survive contact with the table. Like their silly ideas that people wouldn't plan ahead for their subclasses. The Monk isn't a class, it's a pile of legacy features the designers were nostalgic for...
and in my experience, what happens is that you waste two or three Ki points failing to get a Stun, maybe even doing a flurry of blow for another shot at it, doing about 15 pts of damage total, and, whether you get the stun or not, you end up stuck behind enemy lines where any doofus can land a hit and take off 2/3 of your meager life points. Then you have to waste a turn limping out of there.I believe this has been answered several times, but: The monk is a highly mobile control focused PC melee class. It is intended that they'd use their mobility and versatility to engage key targets in a battle and shut them down.
In my experiences, the (mid level and above) monk will get to a key bad guy in Rd 1 and engage them, locking them down with a stun. While they can take about one less hit than other classes, they do have defensive abilities that make up for that lack in hps, and by mid-levels are often competitive in AC with non-shield melee classes.
The monks I have played have been very effective at these tactics, especially as the levels advance up. There have been battles where they've been unable to do their shtick (outside versus a flying dragon, for example), but every class has battles where they are less effective (wizard versus beholder, archers against highly mobile foes that get in their face, etc...)
I think I'd go with being able to regain half your ki as an action, proficiency bonus per day, instead of increasing the size of the pool.I want to test if giving the Tough Feat at 1st level and Mobile Feat at 3rd level goes some way towards overcoming the Hitpoint disparity with other martial classes and the utterly terrible Ki pool.
(Seriously WOTC ranp up the Ki pool with levels, it's a joke)
I've seen a monk use Step of the wind ONCE in all the years I've DMed simply because the Ki pool is so low and using Ki to replicate the Rogue's ability to double dash any damned time they like is ridiculous.
I have already established a Homebrew rule that as long as their Monk character has at least 1 Ki point they can use Step of The Wind without expending any Ki points and this has helped a bit, so I'm going to play test the bonus Feats to see if it brings them close to other classes
I think your experience is non-standard, judging by the fact that there doesn't seem to be anywhere near the same kind of dissatisfaction with the monk as there has been with the ranger and sorcerer. In fact, the elemental monk stands out as the only subclass that people who aren't into CharOp forum discussions rag on, IME.and in my experience, what happens is that you waste two or three Ki points failing to get a Stun, maybe even doing a flurry of blow for another shot at it, doing about 15 pts of damage total, and, whether you get the stun or not, you end up stuck behind enemy lines where any doofus can land a hit and take off 2/3 of your meager life points. Then you have to waste a turn limping out of there.
It sounds cool in concept but in reality it doesn't work.
'Lock down one guy' is NOT a real party role. It's not something a mobile skirmisher should do! That's more of a defender's schtick.
Highly effective at WHAT? I still have no idea what the designers intended the Monk to actually DO. What's his role in a party? What does he bring to the table?
Lock down one guy is maybe a single spell like banishment'Lock down one guy' is NOT a real party role. It's not something a mobile skirmisher should do! That's more of a defender's schtick.
Or level 2 Enchantment wizard ability.Lock down one guy is maybe a single spell like banishment
Gygax introduced the concept of the Defender in 1e just not the word.... one can pretend not to notice them throughout D&D but its not very discerning.That’s not a question I even ask, and feels like a carryover from a previous edition. In 5e I don’t think in terms of striker, controller, etc., and I don’t believe the designers do, either.
I play on a Westmarches with 1000s of players on it. It’s the least frequently played class and while those (30 odd I think) that play it enjoy it for its flavor I promise you that each and every one of us wishes for more HP, more Ki and less restrictive mechanics for armor, multi-classing etc. I think that’s a meaningful enough sample size to suggest help is needed.I think your experience is non-standard, judging by the fact that there doesn't seem to be anywhere near the same kind of dissatisfaction with the monk as there has been with the ranger and sorcerer. In fact, the elemental monk stands out as the only subclass that people who aren't into CharOp forum discussions rag on, IME.
It certainly doesn't match any experience I've had in my own games, or watching other people's games.
hell, I rarely use stun with my Eberron monk. He's collected several ways to stack damage onto every attack over the 10 levels he's seen, so he focuses on dealing damage, harrying enemies the other's can't get to as easily, and doing things like teleporting in with blessing of the raven queen (30ft teleport, resist all damage until start of next turn), patient defense, cobalt soul counter attack when someone misses, and 2+ enemies are tied up trying to mess with him.
As a note from actual experience, I've played a Drunken Master monk up to level 13. The hitpoints haven't been a huge problem for me because of the subclass feature giving me a free disengage with Flurry of Blows. This generally allows me to be out of melee range by the time whatever I'm hitting might want to hit back.1. increase hit die to d10. d8 feels a little low for melee class with low armor.
My experience is that the Monk has a bunch of cool stuff it can do (Stunning Strike and your spell-like subclass ability) but not the ressources to do them often enough. The Monk keeps having to spend Ki to catch up to what other characters do at will and when you run out of Ki you're pretty much the worst character in the party. All the while having to build for MAD if they want any good results. And having bad HP for a melee class.I think your experience is non-standard, judging by the fact that there doesn't seem to be anywhere near the same kind of dissatisfaction with the monk as there has been with the ranger and sorcerer. In fact, the elemental monk stands out as the only subclass that people who aren't into CharOp forum discussions rag on, IME.
It certainly doesn't match any experience I've had in my own games, or watching other people's games.
hell, I rarely use stun with my Eberron monk. He's collected several ways to stack damage onto every attack over the 10 levels he's seen, so he focuses on dealing damage, harrying enemies the other's can't get to as easily, and doing things like teleporting in with blessing of the raven queen (30ft teleport, resist all damage until start of next turn), patient defense, cobalt soul counter attack when someone misses, and 2+ enemies are tied up trying to mess with him.
What if it was free? Would it break anything if monks could just always and indefinitely do it?I'm sorry but Flurry of Blow is not good enough to be worth 1 Ki,
I'd keep the conditions of needing to attack with a monk weapon or unarmed strike, but other wise? Nah. I don't think it's any better than Sneak Attack and the Rogue can do it all day long as long as the conditions are met.What if it was free? Would it break anything if monks could just always and indefinitely do it?
Yep, agreed. Though then I would wonder if the current ki pool would be too large with not having to spend it on the flurry?I'd keep the conditions of needing to attack with a monk weapon or unarmed strike, but other wise? Nah. I don't think it's any better than Sneak Attack and the Rogue can do it all day long as long as the conditions are met.
Nah. The issue would be more of a lack of action economy to spend your ki. It might actually be better if Flurry of Blow was just an extra unarmed attack as part of the attack action so long as you use a Monk Weapon/Unarmed Strike. Then you could spend your Ki on your bonus action stuff if you don't use the Martial Arts bonus action (which I would keep in this situation). By freeing the Ki and Bonus Action I think the defensive options would see more use. Also put HD at D10.Yep, agreed. Though then I would wonder if the current ki pool would be too large with not having to spend it on the flurry?![]()