Changeover Poll

[Jasperak]

Well, you speak pretty well for me. The lack of in print magazines is a fairly significant part of the reason I have very little interest in 4E. The "magazines" may not be dead and gone, but they are to me (and D&D along with it).

Years ago I abhorred the thought of 3e, but the previews that Dragon had in its pages sold me. I looked in its pages and thought cool, maybe I should look at this new edition and see what they changed/fixed. Being able to flip through the pages actually got me to look at the new edition they are offering.

I will NEVER pay for an online subscription for a product sight-unseen.

 

[catsclaw227]

Then... once again, I still don't understand what the point of you quoting my statement and the reply you posted. I never said no one could access online buying, I simply stated for those who cannot, the physical form and it's availability were a defining characteristic. Do you agree with this or not?

Perhaps I'm looking for a connection, since you quoted me and made general statements, yet now are stating what is your preference, and I never commented on your preference so your posts are confusing me slightly.

I think you are reading way more into my post and the quoted section. I quoted the whole sentence that mentioned about people without credit cards because I didn't want to quote a sentence fragment, or a few unconnected words). I simply tried to make the point that buying online is very easy (at least in the USA) if you have a bank account. Nothing more, nothing less. Please don't try to infer more than I stated.

Later, when I had to explain post and why it was relevant, I stated what the intentions of my post were, and then skipped a line, created a new paragraph and started another thought, with my preferences. Maybe I should have made two different posts?

Yes, I agree that for those that have no online access, and cannot buy online for whatever the reason, then the physical product is a defining characteristic. But that's the case for just about anything that can be bought or sold. Music is a good example. For those without online access or a credit card, buying an mp3 song or album might not work, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it's still a song. Some people demand liner notes and reading lyrics when they listen, so they prefer physical CDs. But the music is still the music.

As far as how easy or hard it is to cancel... plenty of posters on WotC boards who have subscribed ... would disagree with you . I wouldn't know personally but the number of complaints on their boards, and the answers received make me skeptical of the validity of your statement. YMMV of course. Have you cancelled your subscription? And if not, how do you know how hard or easy it is?

BTW, I was talking about canceling auto-renew. And yes, I have disabled auto-renew. It took about 30 seconds to click two links, log-in and then choose to cancel auto-renew. I got an email immediately, then another in 2 days, confirming.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I would suggest that the discussion on Dragon be forked. (After all, I don't have a poll on Dragon.)

 

[Jasperak]

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

If I can't read it on a bus <snip> then it truly isn't a magazine.

From my perspective (and did I mention how much I LOATHE reading PDFs?!?!) Dragon and Dungeon are deader than the creatures of the Burgess Shale...

Who are you? Me?

Have you tried printing it out?

That's just shifting the cost of printing from the publisher (who has economies of scale) to the consumer (who does not).

I simply won't be a party to that.

I won't get the same quality inks or binding as I would if WotC or Paizo were doing the printing, unless I have it professionally done...which costs extra.

catsclaw
I am not sure what it is like in other countries, but in the USA, just having a bank account gives you a debit card with a VISA or Mastercard compatibility. And yes, parents/family can still buy a DDI account for a child without a bank account.

That's not true. I have a few bank accounts and I have NO debit cards...and the last time I checked, Dallas/Fort Worth is part of the USA.

 

[Zustiur]

Firstly, I apologize for returning to this so many posts later, but as the person who sparked the problem in the first place, I feel I must respond to make my intent more clear.

You find offense at a few posts about Star Fleet Battles? (Not Star Trek ... the two are almost totally unrelated, except the names.)
You find offense at a few light hearted posts, when there is a real threat of our Hobby collapsing, everyone knows it, and I choose not to talk about it because everyone knows it, has heard it over and over, has seen it happen with Dragon and Dungeon, and for heaven's sake haven't they had enough of it?

Not knowing ANYTHING about Star Fleet Battles, I cannot see the relevance your comparison is intended to bring. I was commenting on why you had not received the response you hoped for. Your three posts in response to mine strike me as an over-reaction, but I'm happy to let that matter drop.

To take what you say as the example however, I could just as easily draw the comparison to the Starseige: Tribes franchise, which has completely lost it's original audience due to the same sorts of design decisions present in 4E, but had I done so, I would not have expected many people in the thread to understand what I was on about.

As mentioned, I could not see the humour in your posts about ECM, not because they lacked humour, nor because they were in the wrong thread, but simply because I didn't understand a word of what was said in them. I couldn't draw any comparison between the posts and what this thread was about. I couldn't see the humour, and wanted you to understand that.

I can understand exactly where you coming from, but not how you got there. Off topic posts are fine. Humours posts are fine, even necessary. Repeated, long, off topic posts in one thread... that's just something I'm not used to seeing at ENWorld.

Again, rant over.
I just had to say all that, get it off my chest.

THIS I understand!

I, and I think most people, really cannot discern anything humorous in those ECM essays you posted. Please be aware of this difference in our perspectives.

That's what I intended to say. Apparently I missed the mark.

I believe (just me) that this means an increase in interest in the game.

I agree with you on this also. I applaud you for starting this poll. I've paid attention to this thread almost since it began, and keep coming back to ENWorld to see if anyone has updated it. I would argue that increased interest in the poll, is in itself a sign of increased interest in (the state of) the game.

I apologize for causing any offense with my original outburst.

 

[Zustiur]

From my perspective (and did I mention how much I LOATHE reading PDFs?!?!)

I recently bought a laser printer for the sole purpose of printing out the Pathfinder pdf. I know how you feel.
Unless I'm mistaken, DDI doesn't allow you to purchase individual issues. That is the killer for me. I don't subscribe to magazines, I pick issues that interest me. If I cannot do that, the magazine is 'dead' to me. As it only covers 4E, I have no use for it anyway.

 

[BryonD]

I don't recall saying anywhere that either poll meant anything in particular, other than arguing with Treebore a few dozen pages ago that internet polls can't be used in any scientific way. I certainly never said "Wow, look at how many converts there are at RPGNet! What great news!"

And if I had ever claimed that *YOU* had said that, then your point would be relevant.

If you agree with me that both polls are some degree of bad news then good.
If you disagree then you are now arguing on a dishonest basis.
It makes no difference to the point which is the case.

You may dispute the validity of the polls at all but:
A) that still doesn't change my point that the one being portrayed as better is still pretty bad so the defensive arguments themselves are telling in regard to general perception of even the pro-4e side. My whole point was about how the pro-4e side perceives the results and what that says of their expectations, it has nothing to do with the quantifiable precision of the data.

And

B) There is no data to dispute that the polls are in the right ballpark. And there are a whole lot of people whose meatspace experiences fit close enough with the results to find them a reasonable barometer.

 

[catsclaw227]

That's not true. I have a few bank accounts and I have NO debit cards...and the last time I checked, Dallas/Fort Worth is part of the USA.

I am just guessing here, but is it possible that you opted-out of the debit cards? I just ran a few searches - certainly not comprehensive - and didn't find one bank or credit union that didn't offer the debit card as part of a typical checking, money market or savings account. (Obviously, I wasn't talking about investment accounts or similar )

Anyway, I don't want to derail the topic of the changeover anymore...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I am just guessing here, but is it possible that you opted-out of the debit cards?

Nope.

They were not an option with the particular types of (simple, no frills, no fees) checking and savings accounts I chose at my institution.

There were other checking/savings products offered that did come with debit cards, but not the ones I chose.