Changing power buckets from levels to tiers

[keterys]

Now, I'm not likely to actually use this idea any time in the near future, but I'd like to bat it around in my head for theoretical use at some later date or on a different project...

What if instead of powers being listed by level (ex: level 1 encounter powers, level 3 encounter powers, level 7 encounter powers) they were instead listed by tier? For example, Positioning Strike (Level 1) and Bait and Switch (Level 3) would both be 'heroic tier' and either could be taken at 1st level.

Conceding that this is an overall powerup for PCs and moving on from there, what are the problems?

This would immediately expand the power selection (Good)
Certain powers that are on the lower side would be even more removed from consideration (Bad)
While there isn't a ton of difference between level 1 and level 7 powers, people would certainly gravitate towards the higher level ones (Eh)
Some powers that are just a bit too low to start would be even lower - Knockout, I'm looking at you! (Bad)... though that could be addressed by just kicking them into the next tier.
Your best powers would be picked at the lowest levels of a tier and your best at the highest level of a tier (Not sure)

Is this something you'd be overall for or against, as a player?

Not working with the character builder is one of the more killing stroke type failures at the moment, but I'd be thinking of using it for powers not currently attached to classes or for different class/power setups than currently existing so it's not a current concern.

 

[Sadrik]

I think this is a neat idea. This was what I thought that they would be doing with all of the powers during the pre-release stuff up to 4e.

I thought they would break the powers up by tiers similar to feats. Powers would all get a boost up at the different tiers too. So if you took fireball, it would be pretty small in heroic tier, in paragon it would be bigger and maybe have a delay trigger, and in epic it would be a full on meteor swarm. Some powers would only be available in the upper tiers (resurection, flying, scrying). Anyway that neat thought never materialized. So yeah I like this idea.

 

[CapnZapp]

One important consideration to explain why things are as they are:

It keeps class design suitably complex, ensuring us customers rather buy new stuff than construct it ourselves.

Imagine a game where this powers-by-tier idea was implemented. Suddenly you'd need no classes. You would be defined by the powers you took.

(Or rather; you'd only have the "martial class", the "divine class", the "primal class" and so on; each with "the defender build", "the leader build" and so on)

This would definitely put a dent in the sales figures of supplements with new classes as a major selling point.

 

[hong]

Imagine a game where this powers-by-tier idea was implemented. Suddenly you'd need no classes.

Say what now?

A more coherent criticism: if you can grab all the good powers early on, that makes gaining levels less enticing.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

You can do it if you ensure that all powers in a tier are equally strong, I suppose. They definitely are no at the moment.

There are certain things you will miss, like the opportunity cost of picking between two encounter powers of the same level.

hong also makes a good point, and adding to that might be a choice paralysis - there are so many things you can pick from even at 1st level that it makes it hard to figure out where to start. That might not be a problem for experienced players.

 

[keterys]

Yeah, the gaining levels less enticing - that is, that you get the best stuff early then move downwards - is a big consideration. It's how feats work now, so it's not necessarily a new issue... and I'd _hope_ there are at least 3 good encounter or daily powers for folks to choose from at any particular tier. That said, it's probably the thing about which I am most concerned.

My initial thoughts for what I'd do with this are for adding a new power type for skills - basically specialized utility powers for use most in skill challenges but for skills in general, and for non-D&D games using the basic system - ie, like a Star Wars variant and a supers variant.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Nice idea, but I think to truly do it justice, you'll need to rewrite every power--or at least the subset that you would keep.

For herioic tier, let's say you want to have 7-9 heroic encounter powers to pick from. A typical class has, what, maybe around 12 right now? So in each class pick the ones that work the best for this design. Do the same for each tier encounter, daily, and utility.

Then you want the powers to scale, verly slightly, with character level. That allows the character level to still matter. Of course, if you do that, then it doesn't matter that players pick a 7th level encounter power out of the gate, because it has been rewritten to be somewhat weaker at start.

 

[keterys]

Very true... and that is roughly what I'd be doing for the primary uses I'd intend it, I'll admit. It would be nice to be able to just blatantly steal powers though.

Now just to bat around if I care about having the best powers first. Hmm, it would encourage your more 'iconic' or signature powers staying with you for a while, since you'd pick them up at 1st and not lose them til... 23rd? That's kinda nifty.