D&D 5E Changing Sneak Attack to Light Weapons

[Gladius Legis]

I see most rogues with dual short swords, followed by hand crossbows, with rapiers coming in third.

Two short swords is -1 average damage on a hit with the primary hand, but if you miss you have another option to spend your bonus action on, which could allow you to apply your entire Sneak Attack (even if you don't get DEX to damage). It's a great fall-back for a first attack miss, and greatly brings up a rogue's expected damage by making the weapon die and the SA dice as effectively advantage.

Moving from finesse to light means that we move from two valid melee options to a variety of d6 ones, but never any reason ever to go single, since there is no penalty for two weapons and a big upside.

Which is why I'd keep finesse and add light to the allowed SA weapons. Rapier is an overrated weapon for the Rogue, always has been.

 

[Blue]

Which is why I'd keep finesse and add light to the allowed SA weapons. Rapier is an overrated weapon for the Rogue, always has been.

Agreed. Adding Light as well gives no* power bump to worry about balance, just increases weapon choice to allow appropriate/unique flavor.

(No* = there may be corner cases. The Club with Shilellelgeaugghlly cast on it. Not really a worry.)

 

[GMMichael]

I was looking over sneak attack today and it occurred to me that restricting it to finesse weapons (or ranged) is something WotC got wrong IMO.

Let's add to this list.

• Removing the term "backstab"
• Giving weapons "properties" in a streamlined game
• Defining sneak attack as striking "subtly"

I'm not in the WLR club (pun intended), but sneak attacks with clubs is just wrong. WotC got that right.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Let's add to this list.

• Removing the term "backstab"
• Giving weapons "properties" in a streamlined game
• Defining sneak attack as striking "subtly"

I'm not in the WLR club (pun intended), but sneak attacks with clubs is just wrong. WotC got that right.

I agree with your additions for the most part. I think (as others have said), having maybe 4-5 properties is really all you need. For instance, if you look at Heavy and Two-handed for melee weapons, only the Greatclub is two-handed without being Heavy. Strikes me as odd that you can't use the GWM -5/+10 with a Greatclub, but maybe that is just me.

Maybe for fun I'll start another thread about decreasing and simplifying weapon properties. But, I know in many weapons some people would like to see more for them... it is a dilemma.

Anyway, clubs are light-weight, easily concealed IMO, and since they didn't make a "sap," which is a well-thought-of rogue weapon, club fits the bill for me. I am not talking about Bam-Bam Captain Cave Man clubs, more something like a bo or blackjack. The thug-type rogue, standing there in the dark alley smacking his club in his palm threateningly as he extorts money from someone works for me. Sure, you can do it with a dagger, but he might cut himself.

I more surprised you're on board with a handaxe being used than a club, honestly, but to each, their own.

 

[Fenris-77]

Whacking people on the back of the noggin with a nice weighted club is a time tested tactic. Don't hate the club, hate the rules.

 

[Fenris-77]

From an attack from advantage position, rather than from unseen, SA would represent the judicious use of said club against the softer parts of the braincase and to encourage joints to bend in directions they weren't designed to by nature. I don't see an issue.

 

[Oofta]

I always viewed sneak attack as knowing how to fight dirty and target specific vulnerable spots. Those vulnerable spots may vary by target and weapon used.

That, and it's just a game, and I get tired of the ubiquity of dex builds.

 

[Gadget]

I agree. Traditionally, things like sneak attack (backstab) and finesse (substitute dex for str) were limited to smaller damage die weapons. That was the trade off. Rapier just makes it the default "best" option for these styles, two weapon fighting notwithstanding (and the Duel Wielder obviates that if you want to invest in it).

 

[Blue]

Let's add to this list.

• Removing the term "backstab"
• Giving weapons "properties" in a streamlined game
• Defining sneak attack as striking "subtly"

I'm not in the WLR club (pun intended), but sneak attacks with clubs is just wrong. WotC got that right.

Smacking someone over the top of a head with a club to knock them out is a classic trope. Same with a sap. A weapon doesn't need to penetrate to hit a vulnerable place because the attack was sneaky. If you want lethal damage, think about things like crushed trachea. Though being able to sneak attack slimes and undead really make the narrative of the sneak attack a little muddy.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

I always viewed sneak attack as knowing how to fight dirty and target specific vulnerable spots. Those vulnerable spots may vary by target and weapon used.

That, and it's just a game, and I get tired of the ubiquity of dex builds.

I always viewed sneak attack as sneaking and attacking.

That made the most sense to me.