Characters made only for combat

[JacktheRabbit]

I'd love to know how you've come to that number. And what it means. Are you saying 20% of people have an 8 cha? That people with an 8 cha are 20% less charismatic than people with a 10? Something else?I'm not sure if you're insinuating that I didn't read all the posts, or that I simply need to re-read them, but either way I had already noted the fact that it wasn't every shopkeeper. Only the ones that count. Absolutely. That way there'd be a level playing field, and his 20 could net him good deals, just as the sorcerer's 1 would net him bad ones, fair across the board.

8 is 20% less than 10. He got it via simple math.

 

[jgbrowning]

Re: Re: Characters made only for combat

There is a balance- a majority of businesses have a set rate for a good or service. While they may offer deals to people they like, they tend to act professional and offer the set rate to them.

SD

I have to disagree with you here. The concept of set price is very new. Bargaining is the norm for the majority of the world still and extraploating a medievalesque fantasy world, bargaining would be the norm.

I've seen people pay 3 times what i could have gotten for an item because i bargained for it. Even small inexpensive items, and my wife is a better bargainer than i am.

joe b.

 

[cptg1481]

My Two Coppers...

An 8 charisma is not all that low....I mean it is the average charisma of commoners, experts, warriors and other non-elite type NPC's.

While I also dislike the combat machine mentality, it seems unfair to me that the shop keepers would give this guy a hard time just because he' s 20% less charismatic than the rest of the adventurers. Do the merchants give the commoners and other normal persons a hard time for their lack of charaisma? If so then fine, that's the way your world works. However, I'd say this guys got a thing or two going for him that the commoners with similar CHA stats don't - he's got gold and probably lots of it. I think that they'd likely give him beter treatment than those commoners with an 8 CHA because they'd want him back for repeat business.

It appears to me that you are simply and perhaps arbitrarilly punishing this character for concentrating on fighting skills instead of social ones.

LIke I said B4, an 8 is not all that low, he's well within the boundries of charisma for the normal non-adventuring folk. He shouldn't be treated that bad. If anything he'd get some preferential treatment over the commoners for the fact he has gold.

Just my two coppers, play your game as you see fit and have fun.

 

[barsoomcore]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad character, or bad role playing, or bad DM?

Unless you are playing in the rpg version of Diablo, there is more to the game than just melee combat. Generally a well balanced adventure will have some situations that call for things other than melee combat.

Well, duh. So what?

The fact that a character isn't good at something doesn't make them a bad character. You're saying that since this guy made a character that can't sweet-talk the town guard, he should be punished? Or discouraged from making such characters? Rubbish.

A character who sucks at things other than melee combat doesn't prevent the campaign from including things other than melee combat. He's just not going to be very good at those things.

And that's okay. That's fun, even. There's plenty of characters who aren't much good at melee combat. Should they be punished, too?

This whole debate is just silly. If you'd play the game using the rules, this would be a non-issue. Charisma matters for Charisma-related things. Duh. If a player wants to create a character with a low Charisma (not like 8 is all that low), then that's great. If they then want to try using their Charisma skills to influence people, well, they're going to have less luck than other characters.

If he thinks he should get bonuses for cool descriptions, you either rule that he does or he doesn't. I reward players for innovative ideas and give bonuses in all situations if a player describes something with particular imagination and flair. Combat, the ball, the market, whatever. Never more than +2 (and that only for really outrageous notions) but sure. A player who's really trying hard and paying attention? Why not reward him?

And if he gives you a good description, gets a +1 and still rolls crappy because of his lack of skill points, have fun describing how the social reject screwed up his attempt to be smooth and charming. You'd do the same thing if the wizard rolled a 1 on his attack roll, wouldn't you?

Or don't give bonuses for cool descriptions and be done with it. Easy.

Sheesh. Let's get back to something interesting, like the protein content of tuna water, okay?

 

[Pielorinho]

Re: Re: Re: Characters made only for combat

I have to disagree with you here. The concept of set price is very new. Bargaining is the norm for the majority of the world still and extraploating a medievalesque fantasy world, bargaining would be the norm.

I'm not convinced that's true. I saw a documentary once, Cannibal Tours, that strongly suggested that bargaining was a foreign concept to folks in large parts of the world, but that tourism from Western countries introduces it there -- it's part of the expected experience in third-world markets. Really cheeses off some of the locals, too: they consider bargaining to be the height of rudeness. Even so, guidebooks will erroneously tell tourists to bargain.

That aside, either set-price cultures or bargaining-based cultures can form perfectly workable economies. It's up to the DM to decide which method holds for which kinds of transactions, and to let the players know.

Daniel

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad character, or bad role playing, or bad DM?

This whole debate is just silly.

This debate is not silly at all. If you are not interested in it then leave and find another thread to talk on.

I have no problem with the character he made. Yes me made a combat monster that only shines in melee combat.

The PROBLEM is how he acts when he does poorly in social settings.

 

[Arnwyn]

I'd love to know how you've come to that number. And what it means. Are you saying 20% of people have an 8 cha? That people with an 8 cha are 20% less charismatic than people with a 10? Something else?

Like DocM says above - came up with it using simple math! (9 would be 10% under the average, 8 is 20% under the average, etc., down to the absolute minimum of a 0 score.) As to the interpretation of that number, well I'm not saying anything there. In fact, in my original post, I said that it was open to interpretation. My response came simply because I saw a post saying that 8 is "barely" below average - something that is clearly up for debate (can 20% be considered "barely"? People will feel differently about that).

I'm not sure if you're insinuating that I didn't read all the posts, or that I simply need to re-read them, but either way I had already noted the fact that it wasn't every shopkeeper. Only the ones that count.

Ah, noted. (It was the latter. Some people above kept saying "every shopkeeper", so it seems that part was missed by some.)

 

[Storm Raven]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Characters made only for combat

I'm not convinced that's true. I saw a documentary once, Cannibal Tours, that strongly suggested that bargaining was a foreign concept to folks in large parts of the world, but that tourism from Western countries introduces it there -- it's part of the expected experience in third-world markets. Really cheeses off some of the locals, too: they consider bargaining to be the height of rudeness. Even so, guidebooks will erroneously tell tourists to bargain.

I'd disagree. I have not only been to many third world countries outside of the U.S., but I've lived in more than a half dozen for a couple fo years each. Bargaining was the standard in those places.

Even given that, bargaining is a common traditional custom in most Western and Middle Eastern parts of the world as well as Africa. What places are typical D&D adventurers living in? Places that look at lot like Western Europe.

That aside, either set-price cultures or bargaining-based cultures can form perfectly workable economies. It's up to the DM to decide which method holds for which kinds of transactions, and to let the players know.

Of course it is, but the blanket statement made in this thread that "Charisma has nothing to do with buying things, just walk in and pay the set price" was just silly. Set prices are a recent phenomenon in most parts of the world. Assuming that a D&D world is built that way is a stretch.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Characters made only for combat

Assuming that a D&D world is built that way is a stretch. [/B]

Really? I thought the PH made that assumption.

SD

 

[kkoie]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad character, or bad role playing, or bad DM?

The fact that a character isn't good at something doesn't make them a bad character. You're saying that since this guy made a character that can't sweet-talk the town guard, he should be punished? Or discouraged from making such characters? Rubbish.

There in lies the problem with your point of view and my point of view. From where you are sitting, your calling it punishment, as if the DM were pulling out his paddle and giving the player a few whacks on the butt because he did bad.

From my pov, it's not punishment at all, if anything, its good roleplaying on the DMs part. He has a character to deal with who not only has a low charisma, but has no social skills. None... I had a player with the same situation, who also had an 8 intelligence. He eventually learned that if he wants to buy any major item, he either has to depend on other players to buy them or make them, if he didn't want to get screwed.

And that's okay. That's fun, even. There's plenty of characters who aren't much good at melee combat. Should they be punished, too?

When a character sucks at combat, he isn't being punished. He's simply getting his butt kicked if he tries to play the situation like a combat junkie would.

The same thing goes for the combat junkie, he isn't getting punished by paying more for high profile items, he simply is not as skilled as the charismatic characters are when it comes to haggling a good price.

This whole debate is just silly. If you'd play the game using the rules, this would be a non-issue. Charisma matters for Charisma-related things. Duh. If a player wants to create a character with a low Charisma (not like 8 is all that low), then that's great. If they then want to try using their Charisma skills to influence people, well, they're going to have less luck than other characters.

But we (we as in those DMs who agree with DocM's pov) ARE using charisma for charisma related things. When you are trying to haggle a good price, isn't that using your ability to influence others? And isn't that ability charisma related??