Cleric Won't Heal?

[Zardnaar]

So example:

Initative is

bugbear
Fighter
Cleric

fighter has 8hp left and uses second wind and rolls a 1... netting him 6hp (up to 14) he knows the bugbear throws 2d6+x but isn’t sure what x is maybe 4 maybe 6...

If cleric casts healing word and attacks they can get fighter up 2d4+3 if they just cast cure it is 2d8+3 so 8hp more and damage or 12hp more and no damage... but let’s say the cleric just attacks.
Now bugbear is up and drops fighter with max damage on first swing and 2nd swing is an auto missed death save... fighter goes and misses his death save... now cleric has to heal AND deal as much damage as the fighter would have on there turn.

She doesn't have a level 2 slot.

She not going to upcast a healing word that's inefficient.

Mass healing word from life cleric maybe.

Shell stop you dying, she's not going to stop you falling over and yeah you may miss a turn.

 

[DnD Warlord]

Input from barbarian players be nice.

Btw. I joke with my warlock who is the main healer on saterday (feat) that healing our barabarian is the best use of my initative... he does more then my finger of death on average and he takes 1/2 damage most times

 

[NotAYakk]

Nobody ordered anyone

You described what you wanted someone to do, and got upset when they didn't do it.

Just because you worded it politely didn't mean you aren't ordering them.

By this threads logic when my buddy Kurt moved and he asked us to help he was ordering us to...

“next week I have to move my stuff”
“I need healing”

wow what orders what commands we expect our friends to help us if they can...so selfish

So, do you get upset/angry with your friends who don't move your stuff for you? If they have money, and you don't, and they don't give you money? If you keep on showing up hungry and without cash and state "I'm hungry" and they don't keep feeding you?

A friend who won't spend their weekends moving your stuff isn't a friend in your world?

If my friends help me move, great, thank you. If they don't, no hair off of my back. They are under no obligation to help me move just because I want to move. If I moved 10 times and a friend never helped me move once, they are still my friend.

"Next week I need to move my stuff, I could use some help" I might ask; if I did, and they didn't help, that isn't their flaw, it isn't their fault, and they are still just as good a friend as before.

On the other hand, if I say "next week I need to move my stuff, I could use some help" and when someone doesn't step up, I consider them to be no longer my friend, I was actually ordering them to do it while using polite words.

Are you actually asking, or are you actually demanding while using "pleasant words"?

So she has to choose who to heal on the rare occasion both fighters need it. Her choice so far seems to be “nah I don’t heal... just drop”

That is a solid strategy.

(a) Dropping from full to KO in 1 round isn't something that happens often in 5e. If it does, healing someone above 0 HP is a waste of a round, as they will get plastered next round anyhow (you aren't healing them to full with most healing spells if they are taking that level of damage).

(b) If they took more than 1 round to drop, why aren't they spending their previous rounds guzzling healing potions if they think it is such a good plan? Obviously not.

(c) If they are spending every round guzzling healing potions and still not keeping up with the incoming damage, having 2 people burning finite resources on keeping 1 person up is an even worse plan. You need to get the incoming damage down ASAP.

There are exceptions. AOE damage countered by AOE healing is often worth the action; the damage is significant, widespread, and the action:heal ratio of the spells are good. The Heal spell is good action-efficiency (if not always slot-efficiency), as is Mass Heal. Healing word to bring someone up, or when your action isn't casting a spell and using a "spare" spell slot, is great.

Standing behind a fighter and spamming cure wounds, either with a low level slot (horrible action efficiency) or a high level slot (horrible slot efficiency) isn't a good plan in 5e.

Use your bonus action to move your spiritual weapon and smack the foe it. Use your action to cast command (flee), dodge (help maintain concentration on spiritual guardians, say), hit it with your hammer, or cast "toll the dead" (2d12 (13) sweet necrotic damage). All better action/spell economy than healing a fighter with cure wounds or healing word most of the time.

I mean, suppose the fighter has 7 HP. The enemy hits for 20. To soak a blow you'd have to drop a 3rd level cure wounds (3rd level slot, and an action). You get lucky, and heal for 18 (good roll!). The enemy hits for 20, and the fighter is down to 5 HP.

If you instead let the fighter drop, the fighter hits 0 HP. Next turn you healing word for 5 (1st level slot, bonus action) and the fighter is back up. At 5 HP.

Except now you spent 1 bonus action and a 1st level slot. Before you spent a full action and a 3rd level slot. And you ended up in the same place.

Even if these numbers aren't perfect, the point that "healing after you drop" is a valid tactical plan in many situations is true. It isn't neglecting winning the fight.

If the "heal me" isn't a demand, now we have two people disagreeing over tactics. And a PC's tactics should be, all other things being equal, the job of the player whose PC that is, not the other players.

What, to me, is left is...

 

[DnD Warlord]

She doesn't have a level 2 slot.

She not going to upcast a healing word that's inefficient.

Mass healing word from life cleric maybe.

Shell stop you dying, she's not going to stop you falling over and yeah you may miss a turn.

Seems pretty selfish to me. Again I wouldn’t want to play a main line fighter in that game.

 

[Zardnaar]

Btw. I joke with my warlock who is the main healer on saterday (feat) that healing our barabarian is the best use of my initative... he does more then my finger of death on average and he takes 1/2 damage most times

Opportunity cost on healer feat is low vs spell slots.

Note I regard healer feat as in the top 5 OP feats in 5E. It's probably 2 or 3 beaten only by sharpshooter.

 

[DnD Warlord]

You described what you wanted someone to do, and got upset when they didn't do it.

Just because you worded it politely didn't mean you aren't ordering them.

So, do you get upset/angry with your friends who don't move your stuff for you? If they have money, and you don't, and they don't give you money? If you keep on showing up hungry and without cash and state "I'm hungry" and they don't keep feeding you?

A friend who won't spend their weekends moving your stuff isn't a friend in your world?

If my friends help me move, great, thank you. If they don't, no hair off of my back. They are under no obligation to help me move just because I want to move. If I moved 10 times and a friend never helped me move once, they are still my friend.

"Next week I need to move my stuff, I could use some help" I might ask; if I did, and they didn't help, that isn't their flaw, it isn't their fault, and they are still just as good a friend as before.

On the other hand, if I say "next week I need to move my stuff, I could use some help" and when someone doesn't step up, I consider them to be no longer my friend, I was actually ordering them to do it while using polite words.

Are you actually asking, or are you actually demanding while using "pleasant words"?


That is a solid strategy.

(a) Dropping from full to KO in 1 round isn't something that happens often in 5e. If it does, healing someone above 0 HP is a waste of a round, as they will get plastered next round anyhow (you aren't healing them to full with most healing spells if they are taking that level of damage).

(b) If they took more than 1 round to drop, why aren't they spending their previous rounds guzzling healing potions if they think it is such a good plan? Obviously not.

(c) If they are spending every round guzzling healing potions and still not keeping up with the incoming damage, having 2 people burning finite resources on keeping 1 person up is an even worse plan. You need to get the incoming damage down ASAP.

There are exceptions. AOE damage countered by AOE healing is often worth the action; the damage is significant, widespread, and the action:heal ratio of the spells are good. The Heal spell is good action-efficiency (if not always slot-efficiency), as is Mass Heal. Healing word to bring someone up, or when your action isn't casting a spell and using a "spare" spell slot, is great.

Standing behind a fighter and spamming cure wounds, either with a low level slot (horrible action efficiency) or a high level slot (horrible slot efficiency) isn't a good plan in 5e.

Use your bonus action to move your spiritual weapon and smack the foe it. Use your action to cast command (flee), dodge (help maintain concentration on spiritual guardians, say), hit it with your hammer, or cast "toll the dead" (2d12 (13) sweet necrotic damage). All better action/spell economy than healing a fighter with cure wounds or healing word most of the time.

Friends who never help when you need it when they can are not friends... the are people you know. Friends help if they can.

 

[Zardnaar]

You described what you wanted someone to do, and got upset when they didn't do it.

Just because you worded it politely didn't mean you aren't ordering them.

So, do you get upset/angry with your friends who don't move your stuff for you? If they have money, and you don't, and they don't give you money? If you keep on showing up hungry and without cash and state "I'm hungry" and they don't keep feeding you?

A friend who won't spend their weekends moving your stuff isn't a friend in your world?

If my friends help me move, great, thank you. If they don't, no hair off of my back. They are under no obligation to help me move just because I want to move. If I moved 10 times and a friend never helped me move once, they are still my friend.

"Next week I need to move my stuff, I could use some help" I might ask; if I did, and they didn't help, that isn't their flaw, it isn't their fault, and they are still just as good a friend as before.

On the other hand, if I say "next week I need to move my stuff, I could use some help" and when someone doesn't step up, I consider them to be no longer my friend, I was actually ordering them to do it while using polite words.

Are you actually asking, or are you actually demanding while using "pleasant words"?


That is a solid strategy.

(a) Dropping from full to KO in 1 round isn't something that happens often in 5e. If it does, healing someone above 0 HP is a waste of a round, as they will get plastered next round anyhow (you aren't healing them to full with most healing spells if they are taking that level of damage).

(b) If they took more than 1 round to drop, why aren't they spending their previous rounds guzzling healing potions if they think it is such a good plan? Obviously not.

(c) If they are spending every round guzzling healing potions and still not keeping up with the incoming damage, having 2 people burning finite resources on keeping 1 person up is an even worse plan. You need to get the incoming damage down ASAP.

There are exceptions. AOE damage countered by AOE healing is often worth the action; the damage is significant, widespread, and the action:heal ratio of the spells are good. The Heal spell is good action-efficiency (if not always slot-efficiency), as is Mass Heal. Healing word to bring someone up, or when your action isn't casting a spell and using a "spare" spell slot, is great.

Standing behind a fighter and spamming cure wounds, either with a low level slot (horrible action efficiency) or a high level slot (horrible slot efficiency) isn't a good plan in 5e.

Use your bonus action to move your spiritual weapon and smack the foe it. Use your action to cast command (flee), dodge (help maintain concentration on spiritual guardians, say), hit it with your hammer, or cast "toll the dead" (2d12 (13) sweet necrotic damage). All better action/spell economy than healing a fighter with cure wounds or healing word most of the time.

I used to help move all the time until I injured my back.

Last time I helped move it turned into I do everything and carry the heavy stuff while wife sits there and watches. Hell the kids did more carrying the light stuff.

So yeah after that it's hire some cheapskates. I'll help my in-laws that's about it. Polite thing to do is give them a dozen beer as well.

 

[DnD Warlord]

Opportunity cost on healer feat is low vs spell slots.

Note I regard healer feat as in the top 5 OP feats in 5E. It's probably 2 or 3 beaten only by sharpshooter.

No I have a feat that gives me cure wounds primal savagery and guidance (all from Druid). Healing our barbarian on the off chance he gets bloodied or is in danger is ALWAYs the best way for me to spend a slot

 

[Zardnaar]

No I have a feat that gives me cure wounds primal savagery and guidance (all from Druid). Healing our barbarian on the off chance he gets bloodied or is in danger is ALWAYs the best way for me to spend a slot

Depends on barbarian player.

I've seen them throw away their hit points and then expect healing. The smarter fighter us dealing similar damage, getting hit less and can use second wind.

 

[NotAYakk]

Friends who never help when you need it when they can are not friends... the are people you know. Friends help if they can.

I'll just say, people to whom friends are a resource to be used to make their lives easier are strange to me.

And, everyone has unbounded needs. Needs are just wants we feel entitled to.

I help my friends because I want to and when I want to, not because I'm obligated to. If I found out a "friend" considered my help as an obligation like you seem to, well, I can find other "friend"s.