close quarters vs teleport

[DreamChaser]

Seems both cooler and more 'as written' to let the rogue teleport along. Probably worth warning him if the teleport seems to be going very far away, though...

except that move and teleport are two different things.

Immobilized: Being immobilized or restrained doesn’t prevent a target from teleporting. [BOLD]If a target teleports away from a physical restraint, a monster’s grasp, or some other immobilizing effect that is located in a specific space, the target is no longer immobilized or restrained. [/BOLD]Otherwise, the target teleports but is still immobilized or restrained when it reaches the destination space.

(emphasis mine)

This sets a specific precedent for teleport bypassing physical limitations / restraints / effects that would normally require an attack to resolve. Normally to end a grab, you must make a strength vs fort or dexterity vs reflex attack but teleport allows you to bypass this attack.

There is nothing in the description of Close Quarters that says it changes the way that Teleport works nor does it give the rogue the power to teleport.

I would rule that teleport is a way of escaping Close Quarters.

DC

 

[Shin Okada]

except that move and teleport are two different things.

I do not agree with this opinion.

From PHB P.286

Teleportation
Many powers and rituals allow you to teleport—to move instantaneously from one point to another.

Emphasis added.

And the description of the Teleportation is using phrases such as "your movement". So I can't see any reason to define that Teleportation is not movement. And I can't see any reason to define that teleport and move are two different things.

 

[keterys]

There is nothing in the description of Close Quarters that says it changes the way that Teleport works nor does it give the rogue the power to teleport.

Doesn't give the rogue flight, either, but he'll still be hanging onto a dragon if it goes flying.

 

[Ryujin]

I do not agree with this opinion.

From PHB P.286


Emphasis added.

And the description of the Teleportation is using phrases such as "your movement". So I can't see any reason to define that Teleportation is not movement. And I can't see any reason to define that teleport and move are two different things.

Teleportation also doesn't invoke attacks of opportunity, doesn't cover the intervening space, and ends a grab/restrained condition imposed by a physical entity.

As I said it's a move, but it's a SPECIAL move.

 

[Mesh Hong]

The one weird thing was that the badguy had a power that allowed him to teleport as an interrupt for being attacked, so when the rogue attacked him he went along for the ride and still got to make an attack.

I think in this case as the bad guy was using an interrupt action the Close Quarters should have failed. The teleport goes off before the attack, this means that the bad guy is no longer adjacent so the attack has no legal target.

Ryujin, I can see your argument and it would provide an easier way of countering Close Quarters. I will stick with my interpretation but think that your approach is also logical and valid. Like many rule interpretations their is more than one approach.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I would say that the Rogue only teleports with the opponent if he is also capable of teleport.

For what its worth, I'd agree with you. Unless the Rogue has the ability to teleport via power or racial ability, it fails my 'sanity check' policy. I'm happy with a martial power to allow the rogue to follow any physical evasion method (walking/running/flying/swimming/tunnelling) but I wouldn't allow it to grant any arcane ability.

Thinking about it more, I guess if someones teleport was always described as opening a magical door which they then step through, then it could be OK. Strikes me as one of the problems with labelling such things as mutable flavour disassociated from mechanics though!

Cheers

 

[Starfox]

I am in the rouge goes along when target teleports camp. There is a precedent for rogues latching on to another teleportation. Compare to

Mountebank's Flight
You steal a bit of magic to stow away on another creature’s teleportation.
Encounter Martial, Teleportation
Immediate Reaction Personal
Trigger: A creature within 5 squares of you teleports
Effect: You teleport to any square adjacent to the triggering creature.

 

[Ryujin]

Sure, except that the stated precedent can also be used to demonstrate that teleport requires an ability that states it explicitly.

 

[eamon]

I'd say RAW is fairly clear; teleportation is movement and you move along with it. Only - if teleportation allows you to teleport out of manacles (and presumably other held/worn items), it's not clear to me why it's not possible to teleport away from such a hold. Indeed, teleport mentions it can be used to escape physically immobilizing effects, and this does seem be very, very similar...

So, I'm not sure what to do. I think I'd say teleport breaks the effect. There are rules for teleport and immobilization, and this power simply doesn't mention all possible interactions with forms of movement.

For instance - what if the creature has phasing? Can the rogue then move through walls too? Or, what if it's a swarm (dubious usage in the first place) - and it retreats through a crack? How about if it enters Gaseous Form?

Or, lets say the rogue encounters a firelasher. That creature can move through others occasionally, and deals fire damage when doing so (it's essentially made of fire) - should a rogue be able to hold onto that creature when it moves, and/or how about the fire damage?

I'm pretty sure RAW just doesn't cover such scenario's - so either you just follow the rules and the rogue "moves along" quite nonsensically - or you take it to be the description of the rules concerning the usual scenario, but exceptions may apply.

 

[Mesh Hong]

This is an excellent discussion.

I might just be changing my opinion.