D&D 5E Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part X: Sorcerers)

[EzekielRaiden]

Lack of competition. If we look only at the officially published stuff:

• Wild's ... wild. And sucks
• Dragon's very very bland for a dragon. It's just kinda there at best (Draconic Resilience is dull and amounts to Mage Armour plus half a weak feat), a little extra damage at 6th level and fly way after it's truly useful at 14th.
• Storm's outright Berserker level "If you actively use these abilities it will get you killed" - a sorcerer that wants to be near melee with too little defensive tech.
• Aberrant Mind is a psion by another name - but the tentacles annoy a lot of psion fans so there's a core of people hating it
• Clockwork Soul's signature ability is about no-selling and this annoys people.
• The rest are not core and thus have been played by far fewer people. Which means they will get fewer upvotes and fewer people looking to kick them out.

Which means that the two officially published subclasses that are thematic and don't have a base that really dislike them are Divine Soul and Shadow Soul (which are the top two). And maybe Dragon which I can't call remotely good but it's merely irritating.

Taking things from a different direction, that is, thematics rather than mechanics per se

Dragons are awesome, so there will always be people into it. Not everyone thinks dragons are awesome, but a lot do.
Sea Sorcery evokes pirate themes. Pirates are, likewise, awesome and thus attract attention.
Shadow is obvious: ninjas. Ninjas are awesome, so being a magic ninja must be even better.
Divine Soul lets you have that "touched by an angel" theme. I prefer other methods for that, but I can see the appeal.
"Oncoming storm"/"ride the lightning" is solid gold themeing, particularly due to the many (often PoC) electricity-powered superheroes.

By comparison, Pyromancer comes across thematically as pigeonholed (fire and ONLY fire), Wild Magic has the implication of being unhinged and dangerous to others, and Clockwork seems a contradictory thing (the heady in-the-blood rush of...perfect lawfulness...?)

Giants and Phoenixes don't have massive fanbases like dragons, ninjas, and pirates, but they've got fans, so they're holding on. Lunar is somewhat obscure, but a connection to cosmic cycles isn't too weird (I actually quite liked the concept of the Cosmic Sorcerer in 4e), and it may be picking up secondary vibes from Shadow due to moon -> night -> darkness.

So, from a purely thematic standpoint, the front-runners and middle-grounders are pretty much what we would expect, and the ones that have been eliminated or are lagging behind likewise fit into the less-popular/not-well-received themes.

In truth, mechanics, thematics, and experience-in-play all factor in here, so there's a lot of noise in these signals.

 

[J-H]

I am DMing a PBP for a 14th level party right now. It includes a Wild Magic sorcerer. He's using Tides of Chaos almost every round for something, specifically to trigger Wild Magic surges.

The 14th level ability to roll twice and pick the most beneficial has been pretty useful. What I recall going off for wild surges are:
Fog cloud (very handy, just had enemy melee teleport next to him)
Potted plant (at the end of a battle while enemies were Banished)
Random Unicorn (healed Good aligned party members)
Some random color/smell/etc. stuff
A couple of random damage spells, I think.

Overall Wild Magic has been a boon to the character, and has stacked up to effectively "cast two spells at once" several times.
Concentration-less Fog Cloud is pretty handy too, especially when you then Wall of Force the perimeter.

It may be less useful at lower levels when the table is more out of the character's control.

 

[CleverNickName]

I can see the Divine Soul sorcerer subclass being a workable alternative to multiclassing...like, maybe you want to be an arcanist and a healer, but you don't want to slow your advancement too much (and the Magic Initiate feat won't cover it.)

I wonder what it would look like going in the other direction? What if there was a cleric domain that gave you sorcery points and metamagic features? Would that be any better?

 

[niklinna]

I can see the Divine Soul sorcerer subclass being a workable alternative to multiclassing...like, maybe you want to be an arcanist and a healer, but you don't want to slow your advancement too much (and the Magic Initiate feat won't cover it.)

I wonder what it would look like going in the other direction? What if there was a cleric domain that gave you sorcery points and metamagic features? Would that be any better?

I can see how subclasses in general could be a workable alternative to multiclassing. Except they aren't! In general. Not even among the homebrew collections I've seen. Not that I've seen every homebrew collection out there. There are a few notable subclasses that add arcane spellcasting onto martial classes, but that's about it.

 

[CleverNickName]

I can see how subclasses in general could be a workable alternative to multiclassing. Except they aren't! In general. Not even among the homebrew collections I've seen. Not that I've seen every homebrew collection out there. There are a few notable subclasses that add arcane spellcasting onto martial classes, but that's about it.

Yeah, I think that's what the Divine Soul sorcerer is trying to do. It's great for a player who wants metamagic healing, but doesn't care about turning undead or whatever...and it's great for a campaign setting where the gods are distant (or dead) and there are no organized religions. For such a player and campaign, it's a great choice! For everyone else, .

But I'm biased, I'm not a fan of multiclassing. I'd rather work with my DM to create a new base class that merged 2+ classes into a single one. I could make sure that it had everything that was important to me and none of the stuff that wasn't, and the DM could make sure it was balanced and actually fit the setting. Since I'd likely be the only one playing it, there wouldn't be a need for a whole suite of subclasses, either. It's more work, but I think it would be a better product (less muddled and more balanced, at the very least.)

Anyway. Divine Soul sorcerer gets a thumbs-up from me. Not that subclass specifically, but because of what it represents: it's both a workable alternative to multiclassing, and an example for DMs to follow and hopefully make more.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Had to double-take on this because I initially read it as Twerked Sorcerer, which, you know, sure, I'm game.

That’s a bard subclass that gets sorcery points and meta magic, right?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Stone Sorcerer’s Aegis ability could be the level 1 or 2 ability of a base class swordmage. If only.

 

[J-H]

I wish there was a way to get Druid spells without being a Druid. Sorcerer is probably the right chassis, but I think access to the Sorc/Wiz list AND druid list would be a bit much.
Druid-only list means you run into the problem of not enough non-Concentration options.

Maybe say "you get the druid list top pick from, but your subclass always-known spells are from the sorc list?"

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

It's great to hear about an actual Wild Magic getting played!

The 14th level ability to roll twice and pick the most beneficial has been pretty useful.

But you kind of need that 14th level feature to make the subclass swing towards positive.

He's using Tides of Chaos almost every round for something, specifically to trigger Wild Magic surges.

And, as worded, you need DM permission to get to recharge Tides / roll for Wild Magic surge. So it feels really uncomfortable to pick a subclass whose entire identity is tied behind the DM's mood, as opposed to just getting a thing that just works.

 

[renbot]

I wish there was a way to get Druid spells without being a Druid. Sorcerer is probably the right chassis, but I think access to the Sorc/Wiz list AND druid list would be a bit much.
Druid-only list means you run into the problem of not enough non-Concentration options.

Maybe say "you get the druid list top pick from, but your subclass always-known spells are from the sorc list?"

How about a "nature sorcerer" (terrible name) origin feature that allows spending sorcery points to negate the need to concentrate on a spell from the druid list? Maybe SP = spell level, can only have one active at a time.