D&D 5E Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part XIII: Warlock)

[Maxperson]

I think some of the dislike for the hexblade is how... cludgy the greater context is. Pact of the blade needed fixing, and instead we got a combat-focused patron. Ok, sure but it still makes non hexblade pact of the blade warlocks a bit weak. And it's now an incredible one-level dip - an OP one really...

So a bit like the GOO, I love the idea of the hexblade, but the execution, the context, is not so great.

For me it's not even dislike. I think it's a great subclass. For me it's more about the patron than the abilities and I just like the remaining patrons more than the hexblade's.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I think some of the dislike for the hexblade is how... cludgy the greater context is. Pact of the blade needed fixing, and instead we got a combat-focused patron. Ok, sure but it still makes non hexblade pact of the blade warlocks a bit weak. And it's now an incredible one-level dip - an OP one really...

So a bit like the GOO, I love the idea of the hexblade, but the execution, the context, is not so great.

I mean...for Hexblade, it's really only the context. Because the execution is fine, other than the pearl-clutching WRT multiclassing. There's nothing wrong with the Hexblade's flavor (indeed, it's pretty clearly going for Elric of Melniboné vibes!) Furthermore, the mechanics are not only quite functional, but actually do recognize a difference between "Hexblade with Blade Pact" and "Hexblade with some other pact," allowing for different shades (heh) of weapon-y-ness:

Neither one: If you want offense options, you're looking at EB+invocations.
Hexblade only: Secondary but functional melee capability on an otherwise range-focused/distance character.
Blade pact only: More or less balanced between melee capability & ranged actions.
Both: Melee focus, potentially being the best weapon-wielding spellcaster in 5e.

Because, it's worth noting, the juiciest benefits for being in melee are not tied to Hexblade. Yes, getting that +Cha to hit and damage is very nice, as is having access to shields and medium armor, but it's not as good as Thirsting Blade or Eldritch Smite, and only slightly better than Lifedrinker.

For all the hate Hexblade gets for being "just" a patch, it's actually a really cool way of creating subtle differences in a variety of characters. A Hexblade Tomelock and an Infernal Bladelock will end up looking quite different--and likewise each of them will be meaningfully different from a Hexblade Bladelock.

 

[Aldarc]

And this would be why I said, in the "what's the big deal with psionics" thread, that the fundamental stumbling block for producing a new psionic class is not whether or not people want one. It's that WotC doesn't have the ability to collect the amounts and kinds of data necessary for their developers to produce a class that can actually unite the warring factions of psi-enjoyers.

It could easily be that even 80% of fans want to see a new psionic class. But if half of them hate a particular approach enough to oppose it, then 60% of people overall are opposed to it, and it won't survive. The feelings run very strong when it comes to psionics for most people. Love or hate, and if love, what exactly one loves about it, are all strong opinions.

Cool. Now WotC should try a full psion class with spells. Have they tried getting feedback on that one yet?

 

[Scribe]

You all killed off the Great Old One subclass?

 

[Aldarc]

You all killed off the Great Old One subclass?

Nah. I am too busy trying to kill off the Rent-a-Cleric Warlock.

 

[CleverNickName]

You all killed off the Great Old One subclass?

Don't blame me, I never got a chance to downvote it. Too many other targets.

 

[Scribe]

Nah. I am too busy trying to kill off the Rent-a-Cleric Warlock.

Godspeed.

I do think that's the one that finally broke what a Warlock is currently in 5e, vs what I wish it to be.

 

[Maxperson]

You all killed off the Great Old One subclass?

Not all of us! I left it at Great Old 1

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I'm...in a strange state regarding how this thread has gone. On the one hand, two of the three PHB options have again made it to the top 4, and have been riding high this entire time. On the other, Celestial made top 5, despite the (frustrating) headwind of "not another Divine Soul!", and Hexblade is basically neck-and-neck with the remaining 4. And Genie has been all over the place, spending time near the bottom before shooting up to the very top and only recently having fallen back down again.

At least as of this post, it really is anybody's game.

 

[Aldarc]

I'm...in a strange state regarding how this thread has gone. On the one hand, two of the three PHB options have again made it to the top 4, and have been riding high this entire time. On the other, Celestial made top 5, despite the (frustrating) headwind of "not another Divine Soul!", and Hexblade is basically neck-and-neck with the remaining 4. And Genie has been all over the place, spending time near the bottom before shooting up to the very top and only recently having fallen back down again.

At least as of this post, it really is anybody's game.

To be clear, I don't think that the Celestial Warlock is a bad subclass. But it's not even in the Top 3 subclass that I think should represent the Warlock or is best emblematic of the Warlock.