D&D 5E Companion thread to Survivor:Proficiencies

[Tonguez]

5eSurvivor Thread Proficiencies

Proficiencies are the Skills, Tools and Vehicles that a character has some aptitude in using, and they do a lot of work in the non-combat parts of the game.
18 Skills, 26 tools (including musical instruments and gaming set) and 2 vehicle aptitudes, giving us a manageable 46 items to vote on.

So lets discuss

• do you like the way 5e does proficiencies?
• are certain Skills just too uberpowerful? (Perception, Athletics?),
• which Proficiencies are useless? (Weavers kit, History?),
• why is there no Profession/Craft skill?
• just what is the purpose of Insight?

As for me I would like Perception to become entirely passive and for its active part to be taken over by Investigate. I also don’t like Insight not because its a lie detector but that it becomes the “ask the DM to give us a clue”, which to me is naff. And yes I do think there should be a Profession/Artisan skill added to allow PCs to do stuff besides adventuring

 

[CleverNickName]

I always use Perception as a passive ability with one exception: when a character knows an enemy is using the Hide action, and is trying to defeat that enemy's Stealth check. I don't usually ask for players to roll Perception otherwise.

 

[RealAlHazred]

I justify Perception and Investigate in my games by reminding myself that I generally use Standard Array. So, PCs might have a high Intelligence or Wisdom, but not usually both. If a PC wants their wizard to be a good investigator, it makes it matter less that they have a crap Wisdom, if they focus on the Investigation rolls. I narrate them slightly differently, as well, emphasizing that Perception is about noticing things without looking for them, while Investigation is more knowing where to look.

Insight I use to prop up my crap acting skills. I use passive Insight regularly to judge when to nudge the players ("So, I know I just said that the guard had nothing to do with it, but you get the sense he's not telling you the whole truth.")

Craft skills are represented by the Tool Kit proficiencies. It's not ideal, but it's how they kludged it together in 5E.

I don't actually think any of the Proficiencies are useless. TCoE went a long way to showing other ways to use the Tool Kits, and the Skills list is pared down as much as I can stand. If anything, I think "Simple" and "Martial" weapon proficiencies and "Light" and "Heavy" armor proficiencies are too broad.

 

[Tonguez]

Wow Intimidation is gone (for my Barbarians its his go to “social“ skill lol)
Acrobatics and Insights also dropped out

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I always use Perception as a passive ability with one exception: when a character knows an enemy is using the Hide action, and is trying to defeat that enemy's Stealth check. I don't usually ask for players to roll Perception otherwise.

This is why I love Dungeon World's Discern Realities move, other than its silly name. (I can only assume someone found it funny.)

With all moves, (a) "you have to do it to do it" (a move is only triggered when the in-fiction description requires it) and (b) "if you do it, you do it" (a move is always triggered when the in-fiction description requires it.) Discern Realities is defined as:

When you closely study a situation or person, roll+WIS. ✴On a 10+, ask the GM 3 questions from the list below. ✴On a 7–9, ask 1.

Either way, take +1 forward when acting on the answers.

• What happened here recently?
• What is about to happen?
• What should I be on the lookout for?
• What here is useful or valuable to me?
• Who’s really in control here?
• What here is not what it appears to be?

These are the only questions you may ask with Discern Realities--but, in return, the GM must answer these questions truthfully. Any roll that is 6- (six or less) is a "fail" or "miss," and is an opportunity for the GM to make a "hard move." Examples of GM moves include things like: "reveal an unwelcome truth" (they do their search and it ends up revealing something they wish wasn't true), "use up their resources" (they do learn something...but it costs time or resources they can't afford to spare), or "put someone in a spot" (oh no! they found the secret entrance, but it threw the squishy Cleric into the cultist room all by himself!)

With this approach to observing the world around you, there's no need to worry about keeping rolls secret so the players can't know if what they heard is trustworthy or not. They know that it is--and don't like it.

So much better, and easier, than secret rolling.

 

[bedir than]

why is there no Profession/Craft skill?

That's tools!

There's so much available story in tools. They connect so well to your character's pre-heroic times.

 

[Tonguez]

That's tools!

There's so much available story in tools. They connect so well to your character's pre-heroic times.

there are no tools if I want to be a farmer or fisherman, even if I want to use my smith tools to forge a hammer - how do you do it?

 

[bedir than]

there are no tools if I want to be a farmer or fisherman,

Add them! It's easy. I have Farmer's Tools here. The Farmer is my second or third most popular background.

if I want to use my smith tools to forge a hammer - how do you do it?

Xanathar's does an excellent job expanding how to use Tools. There shouldn't be much of a challenge for a smith to make a hammer. They do it all the time. You don't need to roll. You just need to have the materials.

 

[Maxperson]

5eSurvivor Thread Proficiencies

Proficiencies are the Skills, Tools and Vehicles that a character has some aptitude in using, and they do a lot of work in the non-combat parts of the game.
18 Skills, 26 tools (including musical instruments and gaming set) and 2 vehicle aptitudes, giving us a manageable 46 items to vote on.

So lets discuss

• do you like the way 5e does proficiencies?
• are certain Skills just too uberpowerful? (Perception, Athletics?),
• which Proficiencies are useless? (Weavers kit, History?),
• why is there no Profession/Craft skill?
• just what is the purpose of Insight?

As for me I would like Perception to become entirely passive and for its active part to be taken over by Investigate. I also don’t like Insight not because its a lie detector but that it becomes the “ask the DM to give us a clue”, which to me is naff. And yes I do think there should be a Profession/Artisan skill added to allow PCs to do stuff besides adventuring

I do like how 5e does proficiencies for the most part. I think there should be a few more of them, though. What I don't do at all are passives. I dislike the concept of passives, because a person isn't going to always be average when something important happens.

As for insight, I don't use it very often because I won't let it be a lie detector or a give us a clue skill, and it's useless otherwise. If they use insight and don't pick up on any body language that would give away if the NPC is lying, was that a failed roll or the person was telling the truth? They can't tell, so why use it?

 

[CreamCloud0]

i haven't really looked at anything other than 5e so i don't have much to compare proficiencies to but they seem to work fairly well, i do think expertise is something that should be given out a bit more, not in spite of but because of bounded accuracy: let a class who specialises in something actually be skilled in it beyond the curve.

i wouldn't object to a craft skill but i don't know what stat it would be categorised as, it can be interpreted in multiple fashions, it could just be a catch-all proficiency like martial weapons or vehicles for when not using a specific tool.

insight is basically your ability to read people and social situations, maybe also a kind of a successor to the streetwise skill.

the difference between perception and investigation IMO is perception is your ability to detect things with your senses, seeing if you hear a noise and making out what way it came from, spotting a shape in the darkness, noticing a scent on the breeze, whereas investigation is more your ability to actually look for, search and interact with things to find something: finding information in a book, questioning people, finding the false bottom to a draw in a cabinet.
the difference between finding a hidden door with perception and investigation is that with perception you notice the seam in the wall or the different colour of wood by chance but you're not actually looking for it, investigation is your ability to conciously look at something while noticing and processing details and information.