Complete Mage - Is it out yet?

[d20Dwarf]

So, now the paradigm is "Diablo III: The Tabletop"? That's exactly what I see the Warlock and these Reserve feats as doing; turning D&D into a simulation of a computer game.

What use is the druid spell Call Lighting, compared to this? Cast a 3rd level spell, get 3d6 electrical damage 5'r/round for CL rounds, vs memorize a lightning bolt with a reserve feat and do 3d6 electrical damage 20' line/round all day long? Yeah, I know it's a druid spell vs a wizard spell, but please, the comparison isn't that far off.

Let's just say I'm less than pleased with the direction the guys at WoTC are taking the game as we head toward the eventuality of a 4th ed somewhere down the line.

D&D is what it is, it's not Diablo, and it's not sword and sorcery literature. If you want D&D to mimic Elric or Gandalf, as Felon said, then you're going to have to make a whole lot of changes to the system to make yourself happy. Reserve feats were my way of making the game a little more like I wanted it, and WotC agreed that it was a good option to present in Complete Mage. These are options, they're not changing anyone's game but the DMs that allow them.

 

[boolean]

I must be missing it, but how do I know the DC, range and duration for the Dazzling Illusion feat?

There's no save, within 30 feet of the caster, one round.

 

[Twowolves]

D&D is what it is, it's not Diablo, and it's not sword and sorcery literature.

No, it's not literature, it was once based upon literature. Now it's based on Gauntlet and Diablo.

If you want D&D to mimic Elric or Gandalf, as Felon said, then you're going to have to make a whole lot of changes to the system to make yourself happy. Reserve feats were my way of making the game a little more like I wanted it, and WotC agreed that it was a good option to present in Complete Mage. These are options, they're not changing anyone's game but the DMs that allow them.

Options in an "official" WotC product. That carries more weight than options in any 3rd party book, and they are not even campaign setting specific optional rules (like the Incantrix), or an optional system (like Incarnum), they are meant for generic, baseline D&D campaigns. The fact that WotC is happy with both the Warlock and these feats means that they are changing the direction the game will go for a next edition, and I for one don't think I'm ok with it.

 

[BryonD]

I don't have the book, only casually reading through it and reading about it here, but I was under the impression it had an arcane caster requirement. Is that not the case?

It is not.

That's sidestepping the issue somewhat. The comparison was: why take a spell that does x for a limited number of times per day, when you can take a feat and do it all day long? Why not a Reserve feat that let a cleric heal 1d8/level of a reserved Conjuration[Healing] spell at will? Would everyone still think this was balanced? Charm effect at will? Invisibility? Remove Disease? Dispel Magic? There are monsters have hefty LA modifiers for at will abilities that are far less useful than this.

I don't see how responding to your point is side stepping it.

Obviously it is significant that none of the examples you list actually exist.
Which seems to be an example of you sidestepping the point I made.
When compared straight up, storm bolt has some very significant disadvantage compared to call lightning (costs a permanent feat and very inferior range).
When looked at itself, it is hard to make a case that is overpowered because the caster could be doing much better things with his combat rounds.

Inventing an obviously broken feat does nothing to show that an actualy feat is broken.

However, reasonable versions may be imaginable. For example, following the reserve feat model perhaps a dispel magic effect with a check of 1d20+reserved spell level and a range of touch would be ok. I'm shooting from the hip on that and would need to think about it some more. But a weaker dispel check that requires actually touching the target would be signficant drawbacks. This may not apply as well because dispel has so many uses outside combat that the opportunity cost is not as big a deal.

As for healing, well, maybe both the reserve feat model and the dragon shaman model could work. Healing touch for 1 pnt/spell level with a maximum healing of up to 1/2 targets full HP.

Not every concept works for the reserve feat idea. But I'm convinced that storm bolt does (with a save added perhaps), and I'm not yet convinced that any others that are actually in the book have a problem.

 

[Banshee16]

So, now the paradigm is "Diablo III: The Tabletop"? That's exactly what I see the Warlock and these Reserve feats as doing; turning D&D into a simulation of a computer game.

What use is the druid spell Call Lighting, compared to this? Cast a 3rd level spell, get 3d6 electrical damage 5'r/round for CL rounds, vs memorize a lightning bolt with a reserve feat and do 3d6 electrical damage 20' line/round all day long? Yeah, I know it's a druid spell vs a wizard spell, but please, the comparison isn't that far off.

Let's just say I'm less than pleased with the direction the guys at WoTC are taking the game as we head toward the eventuality of a 4th ed somewhere down the line.

There is plenty of use for the spell. I understand that the feat scales depending on the level of spell you keep to "power" it. For the purposes of this example, 3d6 for 20' really isn't much. Sure, at lvl 5, it might mean *a little*. But that's an average of 10.5 dmg/round at 20', and if the opponent saves, it's basically 5 hp. A wizard could do that with a crossbow. Worst case scenario, he keeps Chain Lightning, which is lvl 6, and gets a 6d6 bolt at 20'....he's now out one 6th lvl spell for a short range attack that will do 6d6 (average 21 dmg, or 10 on a successful save). My experience is that at the level he'll have Chain Lightning, many characters won't have difficulty making that save. And it's entirely possible that opponents might have Electricity Resistance 10.

And to use it, he has to be within 20' of his opponent. so basically, he's almost close enough to be engaged in melee, which is the worst situation he can be putting himself in.

IMO, it's a sub-optimal choice. It does give a bit of flavour though. It allows you to have the character known as the storm mage, who can shock people around him with deadly (to commoners) bolts of electricity, or expend it in one large bolt. To equal CR creatures and NPCs, however, I don't think it will really do much.

So the lvl 5 mage keeps his lightning bolt memorized, and zaps the lvl 5 fighter standing 20' away. he does, what, 10 dmg as his best result, or, if the fighter saves, 5 dmg. The fighter takes one move action, and whacks him with his greatsword. He might only do ave. damage, so let's say with a STR 14, that's 9 dmg. The average lvl 5 mage has what.....14 hp? By contrary, that average fighter, assuming no CON bonus, began with 32, and is now down to either 22, or 27. In round 2, the wizard can continue using that ability, or unleash his lightning bolt for 5d6 (ave. 17.5/8.5). Meanwhile, the fighter is going to whack him again, and assuming ave. damage, the mage is now bleeding to death.

Alternatively, if the fighter has a Longbow or Crossbow, he uses his move action to stay past the 20' range, and feather the mage, one round after another.

I see this as giving a bit of flavour, so a wizard can have a slight magical attack that remains forever....but it's by no means unbalanced. The idea of a mage getting into the thick of it with his quarterstaff, club, or maybe darts has always stricken me as somewhat incongruous. Now he can at least be still doing something magical.

Banshee

 

[Knight Otu]

So, now the paradigm is "Diablo III: The Tabletop"? That's exactly what I see the Warlock and these Reserve feats as doing; turning D&D into a simulation of a computer game.

How so? Maybe it'll help if you describe what that "Diablo Paradigm" is, but I can't see anything like that. Introducing the warlock or reserve feats or any other option does not limit your roleplaying possibilities - you won't see boxes pop up before your eyes asking you to choose between two conversation options. The DM won't whip out complex tables of random encounters with great numbers of foes each combat, and a complex system of Attack, Damage, Evade, Defend, Luck, etc scores that only a computer can keep track of. Characters won't be restricted in gaining just one class of weapon. Characters won't be locked into a single progression path.

 

[Aaron L]

Hasn't the "oh noes, my D&D is getting turned into a video games!!!11!!" argument gotten stale yet?

 

[Voadam]

Good job on the reserve feats Wil.

I see these as great for someone who wants to do something in combat but have most of their focus on nonzap spells.

So a wizard takes this feat, keeps one chain lightning uncast and zaps in every combat. All the rest of their spells can be for divinations and utilities then. They stay active (although not optimized by any stretch) in combat using magic (better flavor than a crossbow) while focusing their resources on other activities. And it is not dependant on charged wands. Great flavor option.

 

[Felon]

Most of the reserve feats take a 2nd level spell or higher max 4th level. A wizard taking this feat (6th level) for having 3rd level spells. So your choices are:

1. Shoot a 120 foot line of electricity for 6d6 once
or
2. Shoot a 20 foot line of electricity for 3d6 every round

So the feat allows you a much lesser version of the normal spell you are holding on to. As a wizard I would rather be 120 feet away than 20 feet.

Remember, the feat also adds +1 caster level with electricity spells, so it's actually 7d6.

 

[Felon]

Hasn't the "oh noes, my D&D is getting turned into a video games!!!11!!" argument gotten stale yet?

See, if it were the same handful of folks making the complaint, it'd be stale. The fact that different folks keep coming to that conclusion indicates that it remains topical.