Converting Epic Level Beings

[Shade]

well, either he can move anywhere he wants, or he can't.

Gotch. After trolling the mythology sites, I'd go with #2, as it was mentioned in the myths that his movement was destructive to the planet, what with tidal waves and whatnot.

see, now that even supports what I was saying before. Wonderful! let me give that a try.

“Epic Poison” (Ex): Contact or injury, Fortitude DC 70, initial damage X Con, secondary damage X Con. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Jormungandr’s poison is so deadly that all living creatures, even deities and creatures with an immunity to poison, must succeed on the saving throw or take the listed damage.

thiking… Thor’s Fort save is 61, so even he would have to worry about a DC that high.

Good writeup, and yes, Thor had better watch his back.

I like the flavor text info that you posted, but I don’t see a whole lot about immunities/resistances (once again: transmutation, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, mind-affecting effects, electricity, cold, acid, disease, fire, poison, stunning, sleep, paralysis, death effects, disintegration, and banishment/imprisonment effects.)

True that. I expected to find more hints. Anyway, I think he should definitely be immune to all death effects and other effects that instantly destroy him. Paralysis and sleep are covered by the dragon type, so he's already immune to them. I don't know if he warrants immunity to all the energy types, though, but I don't have a problem with it if he does. Imprisonment might be a reasonable vulnerability, since he kind of was imprisoned on Earth.

I think I’ll opt to leave that out.

The breath weapon, you mean? I kinda like it...makes him more dragonny.

amphibious, definitely, because he can be on land and water (at the same time). Aquatic subtype maybe…?

Either Aquatic or Water. Most of the true dragons have an elemental subtype, so I could see water. But since he isn't a true dragon, we could just do aquatic.

I’ll leave out the three heads part too. The thing about mythology is that it tends to vary a lot by source – you kind of have to pick and choose which parts you want.

Agreed.

I don’t know about that. Besides, I think his ability to smash just by moving would be far more dramatic – like smashing whole towns in one movement and such.

Should we give him crush then, and maybe ramming?

 

[BOZ]

Gotch. After trolling the mythology sites, I'd go with #2, as it was mentioned in the myths that his movement was destructive to the planet, what with tidal waves and whatnot.

Should we give him crush then, and maybe ramming?

OK, here’s the take I’m having with him. When he moves, usually, he just moves without any real thought as to the effects his movement has on the planet. I’d say he spends most of the time just sitting there chawin’ on his tail. but when something inspires him to move (possibly an earth shattering event), there is hell to pay for the unfortunates who get in the way. Earthquakes, tsunamis, you get the idea. Simple crushing isn’t enough, but it’s a start as an idea. Remember, he must be thousands of miles long – his weight would be incalculable, and anything he runs over is just kaput.

Good writeup, and yes, Thor had better watch his back.

how about the damage? It should be deadly enough that it would kill most creatures in one dose. 2d6? Or maybe even worse at 3d6? Even at 2d6, a bite attack would kill most non-epic creatures, I think. Also:

Death Throes (Ex): If Jormungandr dies from having his head sundered, his venom will seep out from his rapidly from his body, filling a 50-foot radius area around his head. All creatures in this area are subject to Jormungandr’s poison.

True that. I expected to find more hints. Anyway, I think he should definitely be immune to all death effects and other effects that instantly destroy him. Paralysis and sleep are covered by the dragon type, so he's already immune to them. I don't know if he warrants immunity to all the energy types, though, but I don't have a problem with it if he does. Imprisonment might be a reasonable vulnerability, since he kind of was imprisoned on Earth.

I think imprisonment was as in the spell, or anything similar to it. Banishment, therefore, is irrelevant since we are not making him extraplanar.

Agreed on the energy types – maybe resistance to some or all of them?

I’m going to take a similar attitude to him as the gods get: He Is What He Is and mortals can’t change that. So, anything that would alter him being what he is will be out of the question. That leaves disease and stunning – yea or nay on those? I could see him not being immune to those, but his exceptional Fort save making him immune to all but the worst effects.

Immunities (Ex): Jormungandr has immunity to ability damage, ability drain, death effects, disintegration, energy drain, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, polymorph, and sleep effects.

The breath weapon, you mean? I kinda like it...makes him more dragonny.

which is exactly why I’d leave it out.

Either Aquatic or Water. Most of the true dragons have an elemental subtype, so I could see water. But since he isn't a true dragon, we could just do aquatic.

Aquatic it is.

 

[Shade]

OK, here’s the take I’m having with him. When he moves, usually, he just moves without any real thought as to the effects his movement has on the planet. I’d say he spends most of the time just sitting there chawin’ on his tail. but when something inspires him to move (possibly an earth shattering event), there is hell to pay for the unfortunates who get in the way. Earthquakes, tsunamis, you get the idea. Simple crushing isn’t enough, but it’s a start as an idea. Remember, he must be thousands of miles long – his weight would be incalculable, and anything he runs over is just kaput.

Gotcha. So maybe we can give him an ability stating that if he moves on land, he is preceded by an earthquake, while his movement through water creates tsunamis. Something like the xixecal being constantly surrounded by dire winter.

how about the damage? It should be deadly enough that it would kill most creatures in one dose. 2d6? Or maybe even worse at 3d6? Even at 2d6, a bite attack would kill most non-epic creatures, I think. Also:

Death Throes (Ex): If Jormungandr dies from having his head sundered, his venom will seep out from his rapidly from his body, filling a 50-foot radius area around his head. All creatures in this area are subject to Jormungandr’s poison.

Let's go with 3d6. Death Throes looks good.

I think imprisonment was as in the spell, or anything similar to it. Banishment, therefore, is irrelevant since we are not making him extraplanar.

Yeah, I figured it meant the spell. But I don't see any reason for him to be immune.

Agreed on the energy types – maybe resistance to some or all of them?

At least cold, but resistance 20 to all would be fine.

I’m going to take a similar attitude to him as the gods get: He Is What He Is and mortals can’t change that. So, anything that would alter him being what he is will be out of the question. That leaves disease and stunning – yea or nay on those? I could see him not being immune to those, but his exceptional Fort save making him immune to all but the worst effects.

Immunities (Ex): Jormungandr has immunity to ability damage, ability drain, death effects, disintegration, energy drain, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, polymorph, and sleep effects.

Yes to immunity to disease, no to stunning.

which is exactly why I’d leave it out.

Interesting...

Aquatic it is.

Cool.

 

[BOZ]

Gotcha. So maybe we can give him an ability stating that if he moves on land, he is preceded by an earthquake, while his movement through water creates tsunamis. Something like the xixecal being constantly surrounded by dire winter.

something like that. I'll entertain any ideas you might have. The DM is not going to want to calculate the damage to thousands of miles of area, but if a DM uses this creature, he's going to need to be prepared to describe utter devastation, and if any PCs are in an area Jormy is destroying, there will need to be a combat ability to describe what happens to any poor fool that gets trapped by the destruction.

I think that ability might need to be separate from the movement ability itself. Here's an attempt at that:

"Instantaneous Movement" (Ex?): Jormungandr can move from one place on the planet to any other as a full-round action. To accomplish this, he steers his head in the proper direction, and simply plows through or over anything in his path, moving perhaps at incredible speed to reposition himself. His head will appear in whatever area on the world's surface, as he desires.

Yeah, I figured it meant the spell. But I don't see any reason for him to be immune.

the imprisonment spell entombs the subject deep below the earth - thus removing him from where he was. Of course, you could always argue that his SR and saving throws will usually overcome this, but? better safe than sorry?

At least cold, but resistance 20 to all would be fine.

I think I'll add cold to the immunities (he'll be in freezing water and arctic areas a good percentage of the time - especially since he is from Norse mythology ) and give him 20 fire, electricity, acid, and sonic (but not force).

 

[Shade]

something like that. I'll entertain any ideas you might have. The DM is not going to want to calculate the damage to thousands of miles of area, but if a DM uses this creature, he's going to need to be prepared to describe utter devastation, and if any PCs are in an area Jormy is destroying, there will need to be a combat ability to describe what happens to any poor fool that gets trapped by the destruction.

Agreed. Here's a stab at it...

Cataclysmic Motion (Ex): Due to his incredible size, Jormungandr's movement often creates natural disatsters in his wake. In cold land environments, his movements may an avalanche (see Mountain Terrain in the DMG). In warm or temperate lands, his movements may create an earthquake (as the spell). If Jormungandr moves through an aquatic environment during battle, he creates massive waves (treat as the raise water function of the control water spell,with an area using a caster level equal to Jormungandr's Hit Dice). Jormungandr can create any of these effects as part of his movement, and he may choose to move cautiously and not create an effect.

"Instantaneous Movement" (Ex?): Jormungandr can move from one place on the planet to any other as a full-round action. To accomplish this, he steers his head in the proper direction, and simply plows through or over anything in his path, moving perhaps at incredible speed to reposition himself. His head will appear in whatever area on the world's surface, as he desires.

Seems reasonable.

QUOTE=BOZ]the imprisonment spell entombs the subject deep below the earth - thus removing him from where he was. Of course, you could always argue that his SR and saving throws will usually overcome this, but? better safe than sorry?[/QUOTE]

On second thought, I agree with the "better safe than sorry" approach.

QUOTE=BOZ]I think I'll add cold to the immunities (he'll be in freezing water and arctic areas a good percentage of the time - especially since he is from Norse mythology ) and give him 20 fire, electricity, acid, and sonic (but not force).[/QUOTE]

Good call.

 

[BOZ]

Cataclysmic Motion (Ex): Due to his incredible size, Jormungandr's movement often creates natural disasters in his wake. In cold land environments, his movements may an avalanche (see Mountain Terrain in the DMG). In warm or temperate lands, his movements may create an earthquake (as the spell). If Jormungandr moves through an aquatic environment during battle, he creates massive waves (treat as the raise water function of the control water spell, with an area using a caster level equal to Jormungandr's Hit Dice). Jormungandr can create any of these effects as part of his movement, and he may choose to move cautiously and not create an effect.

it’s a good start. A few things to think about… his “movement often creates natural disasters” is vague – does he always do this, and if not what are the chances? I’d change all the “may cause” to certainties, personally.

As for the “choose to move cautiously” part, I think it would be better to give him a more “normal” movement rate that generally causes no damage (swim speed equal to land speed – no real difference anyway and he would slither on the bottom of the ocean I’d imagine), and assume that his “go anywhere in one round” movement usually exceeds his normal speed and is always destructive. The effect would happen wherever his body moves through, so this ability just about causes worldwide calamity every time.

On second thought, I agree with the "better safe than sorry" approach.

that’s better.

 

[Shade]

it’s a good start. A few things to think about… his “movement often creates natural disasters” is vague – does he always do this, and if not what are the chances? I’d change all the “may cause” to certainties, personally.

Good suggestion.

As for the “choose to move cautiously” part, I think it would be better to give him a more “normal” movement rate that generally causes no damage (swim speed equal to land speed – no real difference anyway and he would slither on the bottom of the ocean I’d imagine), and assume that his “go anywhere in one round” movement usually exceeds his normal speed and is always destructive. The effect would happen wherever his body moves through, so this ability just about causes worldwide calamity every time.

Yes, a "tactical" movement as they call it in the PHB. It looks like most great wyrm dragons have a land speed of 60 feet, even the epics. Should we stick with that, giving him an equivalent swim speed, as you suggested? Should he have a fly speed, since although he technically doesn't fly, he's so long that his head can easily travel vertically?

Here's a revision...

Cataclysmic Motion (Ex): Due to his incredible size, Jormungandr's overland movement creates natural disatsters in his wake. In cold land environments, his movements cause avalanches (see Mountain Terrain in the DMG). In warm or temperate lands, his movements create earthquakes (as the spell). When moving through aquatic environments, he creates massive waves (treat as the raise water function of the control water spell,with an area using a caster level equal to Jormungandr's Hit Dice). Jormungandr does not take any action to cause these effects, nor can he prevent them from happeining.

that’s better.

You knew I'd come around...evenutally.

 

[BOZ]

Yes, a "tactical" movement as they call it in the PHB. It looks like most great wyrm dragons have a land speed of 60 feet, even the epics. Should we stick with that, giving him an equivalent swim speed, as you suggested? Should he have a fly speed, since although he technically doesn't fly, he's so long that his head can easily travel vertically?

no on fly speed, maybe on climb. if you gave him 1 rank in Climb, his mod would be +33 (and that’s without a Climb speed). as for his normal speed of 60, you can think of that in terms on a global scale as little more than “wiggling”. that might cause a few minor tremors and shaking, but nothing much will be damaged. most of the time, he doesn’t move any more than that – only when he really feels he needs to be somewhere else (Thor shows up to smack him in the side, for example) would be make his extraordinary movement.

Speaking of which, I decided to merge the two into one power:

Cataclysmic Motion (Ex): Jormungandr can move from one place on the planet to any other as a full-round action. To accomplish this, he steers his head in the proper direction, and simply plows through or over anything in his path, moving at incredible speed to reposition himself. His head will end in whatever area on the world’s surface he desires. He cannot circle the world more than once this way in a single round.

Due to Jormungandr’s incredible size, this movement leaves natural disasters in his wake. In cold land environments, his movements cause avalanches (see Mountain Terrain in the DMG). In warm or temperate lands, his movements create an earthquake (as the spell). When moving through aquatic environments, he creates massive waves (treat as the raise water function of the control water spell, with an area using a caster level equal to Jormungandr's Hit Dice). Jormungandr does not take any action to cause these effects, nor can he prevent them from happening.

Do we have a way of determining the range of destruction? X miles around his body?

 

[Shade]

no on fly speed, maybe on climb. if you gave him 1 rank in Climb, his mod would be +33 (and that’s without a Climb speed). as for his normal speed of 60, you can think of that in terms on a global scale as little more than “wiggling”. that might cause a few minor tremors and shaking, but nothing much will be damaged. most of the time, he doesn’t move any more than that – only when he really feels he needs to be somewhere else (Thor shows up to smack him in the side, for example) would be make his extraordinary movement.

You know, he doesn't really need either a climb speed or a fly speed. All he has to do is lift his head to a higher height. Perhaps we should mention somewhere that Jormy never makes Climb or Jump checks, as his impossible length allows him to lift his head to any height. Additionally, he should never suffer falling damage, as it is impossible for him to fall.

Speaking of which, I decided to merge the two into one power:

Cataclysmic Motion (Ex): Jormungandr can move from one place on the planet to any other as a full-round action. To accomplish this, he steers his head in the proper direction, and simply plows through or over anything in his path, moving at incredible speed to reposition himself. His head will end in whatever area on the world’s surface he desires. He cannot circle the world more than once this way in a single round.

Due to Jormungandr’s incredible size, this movement leaves natural disasters in his wake. In cold land environments, his movements cause avalanches (see Mountain Terrain in the DMG). In warm or temperate lands, his movements create an earthquake (as the spell). When moving through aquatic environments, he creates massive waves (treat as the raise water function of the control water spell, with an area using a caster level equal to Jormungandr's Hit Dice). Jormungandr does not take any action to cause these effects, nor can he prevent them from happening.

Yeah, I like this much better as one ability.

Do we have a way of determining the range of destruction? X miles around his body?

I'd just limit it to a mile for simplicity's sake.

 

[BOZ]

You know, he doesn't really need either a climb speed or a fly speed. All he has to do is lift his head to a higher height. Perhaps we should mention somewhere that Jormy never makes Climb or Jump checks, as his impossible length allows him to lift his head to any height. Additionally, he should never suffer falling damage, as it is impossible for him to fall.

I can put those items in the combat flavor text.