Coup de grace when prone?

[Dimwhit]

Picture this:

The blackness abates and startled your eyes snap open. Immediately your vision focuses on the worried face of your comrade. Like a crashing wave the sound of battle rushes in -

WAKE THE %^& UP!

In the background you hear the familiar soothing voice of [cleric]: "sssleep..."

Your head turns just as the body of the foul orcish caster crumples to the ground - a bit of poetic justice granted by the Gods perhaps. Without a moment's hesitation your hand, sure in its grip on your favored weapon even in unconsciousness, whips around trailing the deadly spikes with it. Much like streamers in the wind, your spiked chain dances through the air and along the ground almost caressing the throat of the soon to be corpse lying next to you. With a jerk of your back and snap of your wrist you too begin to spin and the spiked links lock in place as your chain fully wraps around the head. Each spike is like a barb securing with a sure grip around the underside of the chin, the awkward cheek bones, the temple and the pinnacle of the skull. Completing your spin you kick out off the body of the orc tearing its head to an unnatural angle. Breathing heavily, you can hear the sounds have died down around you. The battle is done. The gore that was once this creature's face and the full 6' extension of its cervical vertabrae are evidence enough to tell the tale of how this one met its fate.

...

I think the legitimacy of any combat action in terms of its realism merely has to do with how one perceives the outcome. In truth, a maneuvar that winds up doing critical damage and results in a fortitude save vs that damage is a very deadly maneuver. It will probably kill almost anything that is used against. As such, there, in my mind, are many ways of describing this. One such way is to suggest that a vital area has been pierced. However, it seems perfectly reasonable, to me, that alternative descriptioins are coherent, and perhaps sometimes better - as I have described above.

Great example! (And wonderfully vivid. )

 

[Alyssia]

Bravo!
*Claps hands*

See, told you I could cope!

 

[Kemrain]

Nice imagry!

I think you have a decent handle on the situation. I also agree that you should be able to make a Coup de Grace while prone, due to the nature of the attack and the helplessness of your opponent. If it says you automatically hit, it says it for a reason. Being completely unable to defend yourself allows your attacker to put his sword to you neck and jump on the damn thing. It's fairly reasonable to assume someone skilled in the use of a weapon could gut a dead animal with it while prone, so what's the difference? If you're being coup de graced, you're as good as dead to begin with. Helpless means helpless.

- Kemrain the... Helpless?

 

[Alyssia]

Sure! First, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a CDG automatically hit and do critical damage? (I can't remember.)

It does indeed! As I said, overpowered..

Regardless, the -4 penalty (IMO or course) is primarily when you're prone on the ground and still engaging in combat with opponents still fighting you from above. A CDG to me seems an entirely different animal. You're not striking a moving opponent from the ground, you're basically executing a defenseless oponent. Even if the -4 penalty applies (if you still have to roll to hit), I would still allow the CDG as the opponent isn't offering the standard in-combat target.

I've no problem with the whole CDG thing out of combat.

But -4 to hit the target with all the inherent penalties the target has to AC.
If it hits, then automatic crit, and (almost impossible) FORT save, a' la standard CDG

Tell your husband he's a smart man!

Course he is!
He married me!
You aren't daft if you can marry another roleplayer, eh?

 

[Alyssia]

Ah, but Kemrain, time is of the essence.
Command only lasts 1 round.
1 round = 6 seconds = not long at all!

Otherwise, no problem at all with the whole thing. (apart from CDG being sick)
Would making CDG take more than a single round make it (IMHO) a bit more balanced?

Oh, and can you Trip and have AoO when prone?
I'd say yes.

 

[Dimwhit]

Ah, but Kemrain, time is of the essence.
Command only lasts 1 round.
1 round = 6 seconds = not long at all!

Otherwise, no problem at all with the whole thing. (apart from CDG being sick)
Would making CDG take more than a single round make it (IMHO) a bit more balanced?

Oh, and can you Trip and have AoO when prone?
I'd say yes.

I don't know, six seconds isn't that short. Count it out as you picture doing something with a spiked chain. (Maybe you did, actually.) I think it's reasonable, but logically, it should be taken on a case-by-case basis. Of course, it we want to try to apply logic the D&D...

And yes, you can trip when prone, as well as take an AoO. You still threaten surrounding squares.

 

[Pielorinho]

Here's our general guideline:

Someone wants to do something that's technically in the rules, but it sounds goofy to us.

The DM says: "Forget the rules. Describe to me what you're doing."

If the person can describe what they're doing and it sounds plausible (and, hopefully, cool and cinematic), then it happens. If they can't describe it in plausible or cool or cinematic terms, the DM screws up his face, says, "Uh, I don't think so," and that's that.

Currently we use action points to bend the rules: each player gets 3, and the DM gets two per player. In such a case, the DM would probably use an action point to bend the rules enough to prevent the action, or would only allow the action if the player spent an action point.

Daniel

 

[Scion]

mmm.. full power attack coup de grace while prone...

prone is generally something that you have done to you for someone to get an advantage (trip) or that you do to defend yourself (vs range). I'd picture being on your hands and knees as still being prone, doing the army crawl, and as such see no problem most of the time. Happy gaming all

 

[Bauglir]

Another relevant rules issue here is the usage of the command spell. Under 3.5 there is no command: sleep as the spell is now limited to several specific commands. Under 3.0 you could command all kinds of things, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that command could not render a character helpless, and could at best (effectively) stun them...

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The primary penalty for attempting to CdG while prone is that your opponents get a +4 to hit you on that AoO you provoke.

As to how the heck you can CdG with a spiked chain on the ground, IMHO that is a tricky maneuver easily accomplished by anyone with an feat spent on Exotic Weapon Proficiency Spiked Chain, and I do not feel any need to know more detail than that.