Coup de grace when prone?

[Zaruthustran]

Ah, but Kemrain, time is of the essence.
Command only lasts 1 round.
1 round = 6 seconds = not long at all!

Otherwise, no problem at all with the whole thing. (apart from CDG being sick)
Would making CDG take more than a single round make it (IMHO) a bit more balanced?

Oh, and can you Trip and have AoO when prone?
I'd say yes.

As others have said the rules do allow for CDG while prone. It's not hard to imagine. On TV The Crocodile Hunter uses a subdual CDG while prone all the time. Wrestlers are also familiar with prone CDGs (the "sleeper hold").

As for AoO, here's what the D&D FAQ says:

Q: Can someone who has been tripped or is otherwise prone
get an attack of opportunity if someone goes through his
threatened area?
A: Just being prone doesn’t prevent you from threatening the
area around you or making attacks of opportunity. Any attacks
of opportunity a prone creature makes takes the –4 attack
penalty for being prone.

Prone doesn't have to = flat on back. In D&D prone also = propped up on one arm, sitting up, on your knees, even crouched down. In the SCA I've personally "killed" many, many fighters while prone (but it was difficult).

Try it at home. Lie down on the ground, grab a golf club (or broom, or sheathed sword, or whatever) and challenge your husband to move around you without getting whacked. He'll have trouble because you're threatening; all an AoO requires is for you to threaten a square.

-z

 

[Hypersmurf]

Can you do a surgical strike on a -4 penalty?

Procedure:

Add up all appropriate bonuses and penalties.

-4 attack: Prone attacker.
-4 AC: Prone defender.
-4 AC: Helpless defender.
+X attack: Strength
+X attack: BAB
+X attack: Enhancement bonus on weapon

etc, etc.

Once you have a final figure... discard it. The CDG hits automatically

-Hyp.

 

[Quasqueton]

Explain how the CdG is "sick" or "overpowered".

Should an attacker not be able to easily kill (or at least deal massive damage) an immobile/helpless victim?

I've even seen characters survive a CdG.

Quasqueton

 

[KarinsDad]

Actually, my question is:

Why does the fighter still have his spiked chain in hand after he himself fell asleep on the ground?

Last I saw, Pick up an Item is still a move equivalent action and there is no time to CDG and pick up his trusty Spiked Chain in the same round.

Far as I can tell, the DM handled it fairly well (if not for the right reason).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Why does the fighter still have his spiked chain in hand after he himself fell asleep on the ground?

You drop items when Stunned. Asleep lists no such effect.

-Hyp.

 

[Alyssia]

Another relevant rules issue here is the usage of the command spell. Under 3.5 there is no command: sleep as the spell is now limited to several specific commands. Under 3.0 you could command all kinds of things, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that command could not render a character helpless, and could at best (effectively) stun them...

We are playing 3.0, sorry if it wasn't clear.
With a few 3.5 house rules, but nothing that affects the command spell or combat.

 

[Alyssia]

Explain how the CdG is "sick" or "overpowered".

Should an attacker not be able to easily kill (or at least deal massive damage) an immobile/helpless victim?

I've even seen characters survive a CdG.

Quasqueton

I object to it because the saving throw is almost impossible to pass!
Heck, you could quite easily kill a dragon with it!
(Of course, finding a sleeping dragon isn't easy! )
Automatic crit I can live with (within normal circumstances), just make the save easier to pass!.

Oh, and it can be used against PC's
Not a great or heroic way for your character to die.

 

[Alyssia]

You drop items when Stunned. Asleep lists no such effect.

-Hyp.

Surely being asleep is worse than being stunned?

My kids were always dropping stuff out of their pushchair when they fell asleep!

 

[Alyssia]

Well, thanks for the input everyone, you've been very helpful.
I'm almost convinced - all I have to do now is convince the DM when we play tomorrow it can be allowed!

 

[Gaiden]

Hyp,

I hope that was sarcasm at work.