D&D 5E Critical Hits Appears to be Next in D&D Archive

[Lanefan]

First impressions:

Auto-max damage on any 20: nice, simple, easy, streamlined...and dull as dishwater. If I crit, I expect to have at least a chance of doing *more* than my usual max-by-weapon damage, even if I'm only hitting you with my non-enchanted fist. Someone's idea of a crit giving "max + x" works better for me (we can argue for days about what 'x' should be), but I still prefer rolling the dice instead.

PCs using different crit rules than monsters: yuck! As if the PCs don't already have enough going for them, they get better crits as well.

Crit-or-miss when you can't hit on less than 20: needs fixing. A simple fix is that if you can't hit on a 19 you can't crit on a 20, period.

I've long wanted to do something to make crits more interesting, but other than going the over-convoluted Hackmaster route or introducing the messy business of "called shots", I can't think of much other than "they do more damage". Hmmm...maybe something as simple as a crit doing over a certain threshold of damage forces the opponent's armour/shield/whatever to save or be broken...hmmmm..... ::thinking::

Lanefan

 

[Wolfspider]

The way that 4e has changed saving throws and criticals sure does take a bit of the excitement of players actually rolling dice out of the game.

 

[frankthedm]

People could pay attention to the sweeping changes made to the basic math of the game, as demonstrated by the difference in hit points and attack/defense progressions, and understand that other elements of that system need to be changed to mesh smoothly, instead of screaming "nerf" because the numbers provided by 3e in it's complete and published form are higher than the numbers provided by a preview article of a couple hundred words and few real details.

Screaming "nerf!" without full context reminds me of all the WoW kiddies that scream the same thing when a rumored change makes it's way to the forums.

Who is screaming nerf? I will unabashed state "nerf", because wotc IS wisely nerfing the extreme damage possible in 3.5 to a few specific builds. I can only hope little to no multiplication of damage makes it into 4E. If Mounted lance charges no longer multiply all damge dealt, that to will be a very good nerf.

 

[The Little Raven]

The way that 4e has changed saving throws and criticals sure does take a bit of the excitement of players actually rolling dice out of the game.

Well, I think it's already been explained extensively why confirmation rolls are an extra step that only offers frustration.

As for saving throws... it's a matter of consistency. Attack is active (thus, a roll) and defense is passive (thus, a DC).

Also, if rolling is what makes it exciting, then having monsters roll saves instead of players rolling to attack with spells must have meant less excitement for spellcaster players.

 

[Reaper Steve]

The way that 4e has changed saving throws and criticals sure does take a bit of the excitement of players actually rolling dice out of the game.

But if the streamlining speeds up the game, players will get more opportunities to roll dice since they can get more game in.

In one session, I'd much prefer 3 encounters where I rolled the dice 10 times in each over only having time for a single encounter that caused me 30 dice rolls.

 

[JohnSnow]

I've long wanted to do something to make crits more interesting, but other than going the over-convoluted Hackmaster route or introducing the messy business of "called shots", I can't think of much other than "they do more damage". Hmmm...maybe something as simple as a crit doing over a certain threshold of damage forces the opponent's armour/shield/whatever to save or be broken...hmmmm..... ::thinking::

Lanefan

Well, it's entirely possible that you may be getting your "interesting" from the powers of your class. Someone above mentioned the notion of combat classes being able to crit pretty much at-will.

While it seems that the crits are being left dull, as you put it, I think it's highly likely that characters will be able to get their "big" effects when they want to by using their powers.

So you might get a crit in a combat, but it's your per encounter shield-sundering power (and others like it) that provides the "interesting."

 

[The Little Raven]

Who is screaming nerf? I will unabashed state "nerf", because wotc IS wisely nerfing the extreme damage possible in 3.5 to a few specific builds. I can only hope little to no multiplication of damage makes it into 4E

The whole concept of "nerf" is about making changes within the current system that diminish the power of an existing power/ability/spell/character... so, if it was a change to 3e that reduced powered, it would be a nerf. When it's a different game, then it's a "difference of scale," not nerf. The scale is different, and for all we know, this could make crits more powerful. It's like saying that nWoD is a nerfed version of Exalted, when in fact they are similar systems with different math intended for different scales of play.

And if the "get extra damage dice as you level" theory is correct, then higher level characters could be getting more out of crits than before. Whereas in 3e, a crit with a longsword at level 15 might net you 2d8+20 (1d8+10 x 2) for a minimum of 22 damage and a maximum of 36, while a crit in 4e might be 5d8 maximized + 10 (from modifiers), for a minimum and maximum of 50 damage... plus, add in things like the bonus from certain weapons (I suspect since the war pick is listed as "d8" instead of any number that the bonus die for it from the "high crit" property is another d8) and magical weapons (another 1d6), and they could be even higher than before.

This gets rid of the two biggest problems with 3e crits: the non-starter of the failed confirmation roll, and the under-performance of low critical damage dice rolls.

 

[The Little Raven]

Well, it's entirely possible that you may be getting your "interesting" from the powers of your class. Someone above mentioned the notion of combat classes being able to crit pretty much at-will.

Indeed. It seems crits are less important because the rest of a character's capabilities are more important.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Magic weapons add extra critical dice.

This could either mean that "monsters wielding magic items do not gain this bonus" or "we don't assume that monsters are wielding magic items."

Exactly. It could mean either thing.

I'd like the writing to be as clear and crisp as poissible from the start.

 

[Wormwood]

The way that 4e has changed saving throws and criticals sure does take a bit of the excitement of players actually rolling dice out of the game.

Critting with a fireball is more exciting than saving against one.