D&D 5E Critical Hits Appears to be Next in D&D Archive

[ruemere]

To those who miss 3E criticals:

I'd like to point out that doubled and tripled damage rolls stay in game. They were simply relegated to class specific feats (see preview of Paladin smites). We also get additional critical damage for magic weapons and, supposedly, additional critical damage from special abilities.

Confirmation roll becomes a real issue, once you introduce characters operating on double-wielded scimitars with multiple off-hand strikes, high strength, Improved Critical feat and with several add-ons. It's not that such guys are threatening to unbalance the game, it's just that rolling dice becomes a choir.

Also, with multiplied Power Attack damage, you should expect outputs of 100+ points of damage per attack.

To deal with "natural 20 required to hit equals natural critical" simply have the players announce "I rolled natural 20" with "And my total attack score was XX". If the XX equals or falls below required armor class, calmy inform the player that, "Sorry, no cookies or crits for you". [*]

Regards,
Ruemere

[*] Hopefully we'll get something like that in final rules.

 

[jeffh]

Ah, yes, the "reductio ad absurdum" argument. Since people think some parts of 3.X weren't fun, let's just extend that to the entire system because it suits our snark-based argument.

It bothers me when people mangle logical terminology.

 

[DonTadow]

If you really read the article, you'd know there's more than that. Magic weapons add extra dice to your critical, as do particular weapons. We know some abilities occur when you get a critical hit, and it's like there will be ones that get an additional benefit if you crit.



War Pick alone has two properties (high crit, which adds dice on a critical hit; versatile, which we don't know yet), which indicates weapons will still remain distinct from eachother.

Touche'... you have won this round

.... until we meet again.

 

[small pumpkin man]

If you never fail to overcome challenges it takes away all the joy about the challenges you did conquer.

It's like beating every video game endboss at first try. It makes the game easily forgotten. A few bosses you need 3-5 tries make sweat victories. The designer just needs to avoid bosses that you still haven't beaten after the 15th try. That's why I want a "healthy" dose of bad things

Well, if it kills me I am dead and I have no longer to worry about anything. But if I survive crippled, I have to deal with it for some time after the encounter is long over.

Yes, but an over reliance on randomness is a form of Fake Difficulty, that is, stuff thrown in to make the game harder because it lacks real skill based challenge.

 

[TwinBahamut]

Yes, but an over reliance on randomness is a form of Fake Difficulty, that is, stuff thrown in to make the game harder because it lacks real skill based challenge.

Very true.

To continue the videogame example...

Compare the difficulty in the two videogames Super Ghosts and Goblins, and Megaman Zero. Both are in pretty much the same genre (action/platformer), both were made by the same company, and are both considered to be difficult games, so it is a fair comparison. Megaman Zero is filled with good/real difficulty. The challenge comes from evading enemy attacks, choosing the right weapons, using good strategies, and from having to be creative with regards to new challenges. Super Ghosts and Goblins is filled with bad/fake difficulty. The difficulty comes from awkward controls, unforgiving and unfair challenges, and level design based on repetition and memorization rather than creativity. Megaman Zero is a fun game. Super Ghosts and Goblins is not a fun game.

Overall, 3E had a lot of bad/fake difficulty. 4E is trying to replace that with good difficulty. Difficulty will still be there, but it won't come from monsters with scary abilities, instead it will come from the DM's intentions.

 

[Khaim]

So anyone who disagrees is irrational?

No, although your attitude makes me wonder. What I meant was, I completely disagree with your statement, and I really doubt I can change your mind. So continuing would just mean we'd keep yelling at each other. I find that rather boring.

 

[The Little Raven]

It bothers me when people mangle logical terminology.

While it may not meet the "law of non-contradiction," it certainly qualifies as "where one assumes a claim for the sake of argument, derives an absurd or ridiculous outcome, and then concludes that the original assumption must have been wrong as it led to an absurd result."

We claim that there were problems that made parts of 3.X unfun. So, people jump on that, and take it to the absurd outcome of "All of 3.X wasn't fun." And since a lot of people had fun with 3.X, this "proves" our original statement as being false.

 

[JoeGKushner]

If everyone automatically crits on a 20, then being able to land a devastating blow on an opponent is completely a matter of chance and has nothing whatsoever to do with skill. A farmer is just as likely to strike a devastating blow as a mighty epic hero.

Thoughts about this phenomenon?

Depends on how strong the farmer is, what skill the farmer has, what maximum damage the farmer can do etc...

On the other hand, some game systems like Warhammer and Rolemaster have a "man, combat is dangerous" link to them. With Ulric's fury in Warhammer and truly devastating critical hits in Rolemaster, you don't want to start fights just because you're talking to a pig farmer.

 

[BryonD]

Depends on how strong the farmer is, what skill the farmer has, what maximum damage the farmer can do etc...

It seemed pretty clear that the farmers "devastating blow" would be 1d4+3 turning into a 7, whereas the epic warriors would be 1d10+14 turning into 24+4d6.

Obviously I'm making wild guesses on the actual numbers. But I think the concept is there. So no worries on that point. It is just the remedial and boring crit determination system that looks to suck.

 

[StarFyre]

randomness

My players like the randomness. It helps make the universe seem more real for them, as things happen all around them that they can't control and they have to deal with it.

And they have dealt with our brutal critical hit tables and what rolling a 1 does and even our wildmage (not the crappy 3.5E prestige class, but a house ruled combination of that and a 2E converted version with multiple wild magic tables) effects.

Hell, some parts of our adventures occur DUE to the randomness of the wildmage and the most memorable battle was with a wild talent psion (again, using converted 2E wild talent rules instead of the 3.5E feat one), that couldn't control her powers. Everytime she got angry or injured, roll for her to control her power; if she could not; watch out.

Anything could happen, and it did.

(what my player's don't know..is she will be making her return....)

Sanjay